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Why is it even legal to conduct LSD experiments? There was some animal testing post earlier, but giving people illegal consciousness altering drugs seems so muc

Why is it even legal to conduct LSD experiments? There was some animal testing post earlier, but giving people illegal consciousness altering drugs seems so much worse.

_Microft 5y ago
I'll take the bait. A drug being regulated by narcotics regulation does not mean that its use has to be completely forbidden. Just because Average Joe is not allowed to do something does not mean that there might not be professionals who are. Opiates for example are both regulated and used for pain treatment. Any study with human participants has to go through an ethics review and the participants have to be both informed about the goals of the study, possible risks and consequences of the procedures and also have to take part voluntarily. (Regarding "consequences": a brain scan could e.g. show a medical condition and having knowledge of that condition would mean that the participant would have to state this as existing condition in the future whenever they wanted to sign up for health insurance for example. So: it is complicated!). The Helsinki Declaration contains ethical principles on human experimentation if you want to have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Helsinki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Helsinki
- fredgrott 5y ago
  You have to understand that because animals borrowed cell signaling form plants that most transmitter blockers and analogues can be found plant cell signal chemicals Or to put in broad terms our brains are powered by degrees of getting high. Its more of the degree and method that produces bad social results
  - _Microft 5y ago
    The similarities between very different species are absolutely mind-blowing indeed. Anesthesia works on plants for example! Jellyfish have to sleep, despite having no brain at all. They even suffer from disorientation when being sleep-deprived (afaik researchers frequently poked or otherwise disturbed them in their tank during their normal sleep-phase. On the "next day" they showed signs of sleep deprivation).
thatswrong0 5y ago
Why are they illegal to begin with?
baq 5y ago
People have a choice.
elliekelly 5y ago
I would assume the people taking these drugs in a modern study would be participating having given their consent and under the supervision of an ethics review board. I’ve never taken LSD in my life but I would be willing to participate in a study like this and I can’t imagine I’m alone.
plutonorm 5y ago
Psychedelics are a tool. You don’t ban powerful lasers because someone might get hurt. You regulate and prescribe how they may be used safely. And they are a very powerful tool, not only as a medicine to treat addiction and depression but also as a lens to inspect the nature of consciousness.
GuB-42 5y ago
It is all explained in the paper, they had all the necessary licences. One noteworthy point is that they only took sane adults with experience in psychedelics (that's the tl;dr).
unparagoned 5y ago
There is lots of potential benefits that far outweigh any downsides,so it's worth investigating. They were made illegal for political reasons rather than for scientific or evidence based reasons
- vkomega 5y ago
  Sources for benefits (plural) vs. downsides? Source for politically-motivated criminalization?
  - ljf 5y ago
    Not lsd but the reason behind the banning of cannabis and heroin is a pretty well known story https://www.unharm.org/the-racist-truth-behind-the-war-on-drugs/ https://www.unharm.org/the-racist-truth-behind-the-war-on-dr... They were criminalised to criminalise part of society. Lsd was similar - the govt was worried about losing control of people and their desires. Lsd has never been an interest of mine, but I am aware many people find the experiences they have truly profound. there was some excellent work in curing alcoholism that used Lsd and proved very successful prior to it being banned; BBC News - LSD 'helps alcoholics to give up drinking' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17297714 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17297714
  - acid_enthusiast 5y ago
    Lots (hundreds? thousands? a large cross section of the population of every music music festival on the planet for the last 50 years) of human beings report them encouraging a good time with increased enjoyment, openness, creativity, ability to do things, and they where praised by the creators of AA to be helpful in the treatment of alcholism. Very few of the doctors, nurses, lorry drivers, support workers, shop keepers, crafters, farmers, scientists who attend these events and lie about their participation go on to develop serious social or medical problems or they wouldn't have the money to go back year on year for more illegal fun. Unfortunately the majority of these positive experiences are not recorded by government backed science, since reporting LSD use to the government results in the loss of jobs, driving privileges, children and ultimately homes and freedom. Users complained about the war, lsd was banned (- over simplification for brevity.). Laughter has no accepted medical use and trying to prove otherwise is a crime
pmoriarty 5y ago
"giving people illegal consciousness altering drugs seems so much worse" It would be interesting to learn why you think it would be so bad.
totony 5y ago
>but giving people illegal consciousness altering drugs seems so much worse. Why do you think so?
haswell 5y ago
Out of curiosity, which part bothers you? 1. That the drugs are illegal 2. That the drugs alter consciousness What’s your stance on cannabis?
modmans2nd 5y ago
…..
type0 5y ago
I find the concept of "illegal consciousness" fascinating
- josephcsible 5y ago
  You misparsed the sentence. "illegal" and "consciousness altering" both modify "drugs". "illegal" doesn't modify "consciousness".
  - danwills 5y ago
    I agree that's the intended sense of what was said, but what a fascinating side-track! I can readily imagine the idea of illegal "states of mind" (1984/Orwell style: simply things the state made a law stating that it's illegal to think or whatever) but the idea of illegal consciousness is much more bizarre!

Why is it even legal to conduct LSD experiments? There was some animal testing post earlier, but giving people illegal consciousness altering drugs seems so much worse.

_Microft 5y ago

I'll take the bait. A drug being regulated by narcotics regulation does not mean that its use has to be completely forbidden. Just because Average Joe is not allowed to do something does not mean that there might not be professionals who are. Opiates for example are both regulated and used for pain treatment. Any study with human participants has to go through an ethics review and the participants have to be both informed about the goals of the study, possible risks and consequences of the procedures and also have to take part voluntarily. (Regarding "consequences": a brain scan could e.g. show a medical condition and having knowledge of that condition would mean that the participant would have to state this as existing condition in the future whenever they wanted to sign up for health insurance for example. So: it is complicated!). The Helsinki Declaration contains ethical principles on human experimentation if you want to have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Helsinki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Helsinki

fredgrott 5y ago
You have to understand that because animals borrowed cell signaling form plants that most transmitter blockers and analogues can be found plant cell signal chemicals Or to put in broad terms our brains are powered by degrees of getting high. Its more of the degree and method that produces bad social results
- _Microft 5y ago
  The similarities between very different species are absolutely mind-blowing indeed. Anesthesia works on plants for example! Jellyfish have to sleep, despite having no brain at all. They even suffer from disorientation when being sleep-deprived (afaik researchers frequently poked or otherwise disturbed them in their tank during their normal sleep-phase. On the "next day" they showed signs of sleep deprivation).

thatswrong0 5y ago

Why are they illegal to begin with?

baq 5y ago

People have a choice.

elliekelly 5y ago

I would assume the people taking these drugs in a modern study would be participating having given their consent and under the supervision of an ethics review board. I’ve never taken LSD in my life but I would be willing to participate in a study like this and I can’t imagine I’m alone.

plutonorm 5y ago

Psychedelics are a tool. You don’t ban powerful lasers because someone might get hurt. You regulate and prescribe how they may be used safely. And they are a very powerful tool, not only as a medicine to treat addiction and depression but also as a lens to inspect the nature of consciousness.

GuB-42 5y ago

It is all explained in the paper, they had all the necessary licences. One noteworthy point is that they only took sane adults with experience in psychedelics (that's the tl;dr).

unparagoned 5y ago

There is lots of potential benefits that far outweigh any downsides,so it's worth investigating. They were made illegal for political reasons rather than for scientific or evidence based reasons

vkomega 5y ago
Sources for benefits (plural) vs. downsides? Source for politically-motivated criminalization?
- ljf 5y ago
  Not lsd but the reason behind the banning of cannabis and heroin is a pretty well known story https://www.unharm.org/the-racist-truth-behind-the-war-on-drugs/ https://www.unharm.org/the-racist-truth-behind-the-war-on-dr... They were criminalised to criminalise part of society. Lsd was similar - the govt was worried about losing control of people and their desires. Lsd has never been an interest of mine, but I am aware many people find the experiences they have truly profound. there was some excellent work in curing alcoholism that used Lsd and proved very successful prior to it being banned; BBC News - LSD 'helps alcoholics to give up drinking' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17297714 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17297714
- acid_enthusiast 5y ago
  Lots (hundreds? thousands? a large cross section of the population of every music music festival on the planet for the last 50 years) of human beings report them encouraging a good time with increased enjoyment, openness, creativity, ability to do things, and they where praised by the creators of AA to be helpful in the treatment of alcholism. Very few of the doctors, nurses, lorry drivers, support workers, shop keepers, crafters, farmers, scientists who attend these events and lie about their participation go on to develop serious social or medical problems or they wouldn't have the money to go back year on year for more illegal fun. Unfortunately the majority of these positive experiences are not recorded by government backed science, since reporting LSD use to the government results in the loss of jobs, driving privileges, children and ultimately homes and freedom. Users complained about the war, lsd was banned (- over simplification for brevity.). Laughter has no accepted medical use and trying to prove otherwise is a crime

pmoriarty 5y ago

"giving people illegal consciousness altering drugs seems so much worse" It would be interesting to learn why you think it would be so bad.

totony 5y ago

>but giving people illegal consciousness altering drugs seems so much worse. Why do you think so?

haswell 5y ago

Out of curiosity, which part bothers you? 1. That the drugs are illegal 2. That the drugs alter consciousness What’s your stance on cannabis?

modmans2nd 5y ago

…..

type0 5y ago

I find the concept of "illegal consciousness" fascinating

josephcsible 5y ago
You misparsed the sentence. "illegal" and "consciousness altering" both modify "drugs". "illegal" doesn't modify "consciousness".
- danwills 5y ago
  I agree that's the intended sense of what was said, but what a fascinating side-track! I can readily imagine the idea of illegal "states of mind" (1984/Orwell style: simply things the state made a law stating that it's illegal to think or whatever) but the idea of illegal consciousness is much more bizarre!