8 ms·

Just use GNOME, it’s developed by professionals and it shows.

vbezhenar 5y ago
IMO GNOME is too tablet-oriented. I don't like it, this kind of UI is foreign on desktop. They waste an entire top bar. Top bar is not compatible with tabbed applications (mainly browsers). Application launcher screen is absolutely weird for desktop, it reminds me of Windows 8.
- trotFunky 5y ago
  The thing is, you can change a lot of those things to match what you want. You can toggle the application menu, which works more like the windows menu. You can use something like dash-to-panel [0] to make the top bar into something useful. I know that in Firefox you can disable the window bar to make it look a lot cleaner with a top bar. Here is a screenshot of how my GNOME looks [1]. I don't have the application menu because I use an app launcher, so it doesn't bother me that much. That's an investment you have to make if you want it to look like you want to. Maybe you just want to have a DE that works for you without tweaking it, which I understand. But I'm pretty sure you could make a GNOME desktop you like given the time. Having tested multiple desktop environment and window managers, it's pretty great having such a diverse pool of choices : you can really ditch GNOME completely if you don't like it. [0] : https://github.com/home-sweet-gnome/dash-to-panel#features https://github.com/home-sweet-gnome/dash-to-panel#features [1] : https://i.imgur.com/NRegvAo.png https://i.imgur.com/NRegvAo.png (The orange on the left is me failing to crop my left monitor correctly)
  - eqvinox 5y ago
    The problem isn't that you can't configure GNOME to behave to your preferences. The problem is that GNOME makes it hard to do so, and that's a philosophical decision the project made. If I'm about to spend time customizing my DE to match my preferences and habits, I'd much rather spend the time on something that is made to be customizable.
    - zxzax 5y ago
      I don't think that actually is a problem though. For specific GNOME apps it's true, they tend to avoid having a lot of configuration settings. You can just avoid using those apps and use other ones. The one part you can't replace is the shell, but you can pretty much configure every aspect of that using extensions. If you don't like the way the shell operates on a fundamental level, then you would probably be better served by using a different desktop.
      - eqvinox 5y ago
        You're making my point for me. You're suggesting I spend additional time cobbling together extensions (which presumably can end up unmaintained and/or break?) and swap out some applications. This feels like ordering paella at a restaurant when I don't like seafood. Sure, I can eat around all the sea bits. But there's lots of other options at this restaurant, so why the f* would I order paella, knowing it has seafood I don't like? I'm not gonna tell you not to order the paella, or that the paella is bad, or that the restaurant is bad, or whatever. But don't push the paella on me either please ;)
        zxzax 5y ago
        I'm not sure I understand the point -- that's a different complaint entirely. The "cobbling together extensions and swapping out applications" is the customization, that's exactly what you asked for initially. Edit: If the issue is that some extensions break and become unmaintained sometimes, that's unfortunate, but the only other solution there would actually be to put heavy limits on the extension API. Which would probably not be to your liking either because it would actually reduce customizability.
        Nursie 5y ago
        The issue is that you have to install extensions, and that configurability has been deliberately removed, creating an inflexible and opinionated DE. The problem is not that the extension API is too wide in scope, it's that you need to use an extension API at all to change even simple things.
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    One issue with extension is that it's not official. For example from the very extension you linked (dash-to-panel) I can find out, that Gnome 40 support issue (#1265) is not closed. Gnome 40 was released almost 3 months ago and it is default in Fedora 34. Imagine someone upgrading and breaking his workflows completely. That would be OK for some minor adjustments, when user can live without this extension for a while. But for something as major as dash-to-panel, it should be official and updated synchronously with main project to be a proper option IMO. That's my reason to avoid this extension for now. It might be good, but I don't want to depend on it.
    - trotFunky 5y ago
      That's fair, and I agree it would be much better if it was officially supported. I'm on a rolling release distro but I had to freeze all my GNOME packages to stay on 38 because of the issue you mention. But I chose GNOME knowing they have a tendency to break a lot of extensions with new versions, which is honestly quite a pain and something I understand many (if not most!) don't want to deal with.
cpgxiii 5y ago
GNOME may be developed by professionals, but its design leaves a lot to be desired in the details. Something as basic as two-finger click, which any competent touchpad has supported for the better part of a decade, is not only no longer enabled by default, but no longer configurable at all by default! You have to install an additional configuration tool to enable it. For a long time nautilus had a "Connect to server" option, but that went away - not the functionality of course, that's still available via Ctrl+L - but all discoverability had to disappear. It's the complete lack of attention to details like these that makes people distrust GNOME and its future direction.
- zxzax 5y ago
  >You have to install an additional configuration tool to enable it. What exactly is the problem? It sounds like the configuration setting just moved, I can see that being inconvenient if you're used to the old way, but it doesn't seem like some big glaring design flaw. >For a long time nautilus had a "Connect to server" option, but that went away I believe that is still there if you click "Other Locations."
LeoPanthera 5y ago
Does it show thumbnails in the file picker?
- amanzi 5y ago
  Yes.

IMO GNOME is too tablet-oriented. I don't like it, this kind of UI is foreign on desktop. They waste an entire top bar. Top bar is not compatible with tabbed applications (mainly browsers). Application launcher screen is absolutely weird for desktop, it reminds me of Windows 8.

trotFunky 5y ago
The thing is, you can change a lot of those things to match what you want. You can toggle the application menu, which works more like the windows menu. You can use something like dash-to-panel [0] to make the top bar into something useful. I know that in Firefox you can disable the window bar to make it look a lot cleaner with a top bar. Here is a screenshot of how my GNOME looks [1]. I don't have the application menu because I use an app launcher, so it doesn't bother me that much. That's an investment you have to make if you want it to look like you want to. Maybe you just want to have a DE that works for you without tweaking it, which I understand. But I'm pretty sure you could make a GNOME desktop you like given the time. Having tested multiple desktop environment and window managers, it's pretty great having such a diverse pool of choices : you can really ditch GNOME completely if you don't like it. [0] : https://github.com/home-sweet-gnome/dash-to-panel#features https://github.com/home-sweet-gnome/dash-to-panel#features [1] : https://i.imgur.com/NRegvAo.png https://i.imgur.com/NRegvAo.png (The orange on the left is me failing to crop my left monitor correctly)
- eqvinox 5y ago
  The problem isn't that you can't configure GNOME to behave to your preferences. The problem is that GNOME makes it hard to do so, and that's a philosophical decision the project made. If I'm about to spend time customizing my DE to match my preferences and habits, I'd much rather spend the time on something that is made to be customizable.
  - zxzax 5y ago
    I don't think that actually is a problem though. For specific GNOME apps it's true, they tend to avoid having a lot of configuration settings. You can just avoid using those apps and use other ones. The one part you can't replace is the shell, but you can pretty much configure every aspect of that using extensions. If you don't like the way the shell operates on a fundamental level, then you would probably be better served by using a different desktop.
    - eqvinox 5y ago
      You're making my point for me. You're suggesting I spend additional time cobbling together extensions (which presumably can end up unmaintained and/or break?) and swap out some applications. This feels like ordering paella at a restaurant when I don't like seafood. Sure, I can eat around all the sea bits. But there's lots of other options at this restaurant, so why the f* would I order paella, knowing it has seafood I don't like? I'm not gonna tell you not to order the paella, or that the paella is bad, or that the restaurant is bad, or whatever. But don't push the paella on me either please ;)
      - zxzax 5y ago
        I'm not sure I understand the point -- that's a different complaint entirely. The "cobbling together extensions and swapping out applications" is the customization, that's exactly what you asked for initially. Edit: If the issue is that some extensions break and become unmaintained sometimes, that's unfortunate, but the only other solution there would actually be to put heavy limits on the extension API. Which would probably not be to your liking either because it would actually reduce customizability.
        Nursie 5y ago
        The issue is that you have to install extensions, and that configurability has been deliberately removed, creating an inflexible and opinionated DE. The problem is not that the extension API is too wide in scope, it's that you need to use an extension API at all to change even simple things.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  One issue with extension is that it's not official. For example from the very extension you linked (dash-to-panel) I can find out, that Gnome 40 support issue (#1265) is not closed. Gnome 40 was released almost 3 months ago and it is default in Fedora 34. Imagine someone upgrading and breaking his workflows completely. That would be OK for some minor adjustments, when user can live without this extension for a while. But for something as major as dash-to-panel, it should be official and updated synchronously with main project to be a proper option IMO. That's my reason to avoid this extension for now. It might be good, but I don't want to depend on it.
  - trotFunky 5y ago
    That's fair, and I agree it would be much better if it was officially supported. I'm on a rolling release distro but I had to freeze all my GNOME packages to stay on 38 because of the issue you mention. But I chose GNOME knowing they have a tendency to break a lot of extensions with new versions, which is honestly quite a pain and something I understand many (if not most!) don't want to deal with.

cpgxiii 5y ago

GNOME may be developed by professionals, but its design leaves a lot to be desired in the details. Something as basic as two-finger click, which any competent touchpad has supported for the better part of a decade, is not only no longer enabled by default, but no longer configurable at all by default! You have to install an additional configuration tool to enable it. For a long time nautilus had a "Connect to server" option, but that went away - not the functionality of course, that's still available via Ctrl+L - but all discoverability had to disappear. It's the complete lack of attention to details like these that makes people distrust GNOME and its future direction.

zxzax 5y ago
>You have to install an additional configuration tool to enable it. What exactly is the problem? It sounds like the configuration setting just moved, I can see that being inconvenient if you're used to the old way, but it doesn't seem like some big glaring design flaw. >For a long time nautilus had a "Connect to server" option, but that went away I believe that is still there if you click "Other Locations."

LeoPanthera 5y ago

Does it show thumbnails in the file picker?

amanzi 5y ago
Yes.