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Do you have a particular example in mind or is it a theoretical concern? I can definitely see how it could benefit foreign competitors, but at the same time th

by simias 5y ago

Do you have a particular example in mind or is it a theoretical concern? I can definitely see how it could benefit foreign competitors, but at the same time the American tech giants are so largely ahead of the competition that it's hard for me to imagine a foreign competitor managing to overtake them. It might level the playing field a little bit, but it's not necessarily a bad thing, even from a US-centric point of view.

aerosmile 5y ago
You should take a look at Tik Tok. Companies with large marketing budgets and focused on digital channels spend the majority of it on Facebook and Google. Traditionally, the rest went to Pinterest and Snapchat, but Tik Tok has 1) built a huge audience and 2) built a good enough ad platform (which only continues to improve) that they went from nowhere to choice #3 in a shockingly short amount of time. Sound familiar? Yes, that's exactly how to Facebook surprised Google as well, only much slower.
- tmotwu 5y ago
  If we were to break up Facebook or Google, it would be of the granularity of YouTube or Instagram, which is actually what TikTok competes with. I cannot see how YouTube or Instagram could suffer or lose market share.
  - aerosmile 5y ago
    > The impact TikTok has had on the social media landscape is undeniable. This year, it is projected to reach 2.1 billion users, and its success hasn’t gone unnoticed by other key players, most notably Instagram. [1] > in addition to gaining more users than Instagram, TikTok is also earning the attention of top power users. [2] [1] https://digitalagencynetwork.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-who-is-winning-at-social-media/ https://digitalagencynetwork.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-who-is-... [2] http://instagram-tiktok.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-which-one-wins-the-social-media/ http://instagram-tiktok.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-which-one-wi...
    - tmotwu 5y ago
      I am not exactly sure what you are trying to prove here. As far as I am concerned, Google and Facebook have not been broken up into pieces of YouTube and Instagram yet. How does this in any way demonstrate what would happen if we broke up big tech? Sounds like further evidence they need to be released from their mismanagement.
      - aerosmile 5y ago
        You said: > I cannot see how YouTube or Instagram could suffer or lose market share. The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect. Moving on to your next point: > Sounds like further evidence they need to be released from their mismanagement. It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Facebook from Instagram, but my guess was that it was always for antitrust concerns. More recently, I started to sense that an additional flavor has entered this conversation recently, something like "Facebook and Instagram would be better products if they were run by independent companies." I think what people don't realize is how much effort went into building the world's most sophisticated ad targeting platform, and how convenient it was for Instagram to benefit from Facebook's resources. Not to mention the shared spam/adult/community moderation, shared hosting, etc, etc. Breaking up those apps into separate companies would definitely increase their cost of operation and would slow down their rate of development.
        tmotwu 5y ago
        > The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect. I said that in the context of breaking up G/FB. Why isolate that sentence for no apparent reason? It was a very short comment. > It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Facebook from Instagram, but my guess was that it was always for antitrust concerns. More recently, I started to sense that an additional flavor has entered this conversation recently, something like "Facebook and Instagram would be better products if they were run by independent companies." There is no additional flavor. Ask yourself why we bother about antitrust. It is to raise the level of competition. Do you believe innovation is best nurtured in a competitive environment? Literally, the title of the bill consists the words a "stronger online economy", for "innovation". Pooling all your resources into ads targeting because you are comfortably sitting in a dominant position is exactly the problem. YouTube and Instagram with independent leadership would have the flexibility to focus on their market -- image/video media. That is why TikTok and Snapchat were able to catch Instagram with their pants down -- Facebook had no idea alternative forms media (and did not care) was possible and were simply focused on milking their existing platform. Better ads targeting does not bring in users, and market share is driven by users, not ads. Why does it matter if it increases their cost of operation and slows down their rate of development if the majority of their development is focused on ads targeting - an ineffective user growth strategy? The blame lies on nobody but Facebook or Google if their products have been losing marketshare in 2021.

by simias 5y ago

aerosmile 5y ago

You should take a look at Tik Tok. Companies with large marketing budgets and focused on digital channels spend the majority of it on Facebook and Google. Traditionally, the rest went to Pinterest and Snapchat, but Tik Tok has 1) built a huge audience and 2) built a good enough ad platform (which only continues to improve) that they went from nowhere to choice #3 in a shockingly short amount of time. Sound familiar? Yes, that's exactly how to Facebook surprised Google as well, only much slower.

tmotwu 5y ago
If we were to break up Facebook or Google, it would be of the granularity of YouTube or Instagram, which is actually what TikTok competes with. I cannot see how YouTube or Instagram could suffer or lose market share.
- aerosmile 5y ago
  > The impact TikTok has had on the social media landscape is undeniable. This year, it is projected to reach 2.1 billion users, and its success hasn’t gone unnoticed by other key players, most notably Instagram. [1] > in addition to gaining more users than Instagram, TikTok is also earning the attention of top power users. [2] [1] https://digitalagencynetwork.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-who-is-winning-at-social-media/ https://digitalagencynetwork.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-who-is-... [2] http://instagram-tiktok.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-which-one-wins-the-social-media/ http://instagram-tiktok.com/tiktok-vs-instagram-which-one-wi...
  - tmotwu 5y ago
    I am not exactly sure what you are trying to prove here. As far as I am concerned, Google and Facebook have not been broken up into pieces of YouTube and Instagram yet. How does this in any way demonstrate what would happen if we broke up big tech? Sounds like further evidence they need to be released from their mismanagement.
    - aerosmile 5y ago
      You said: > I cannot see how YouTube or Instagram could suffer or lose market share. The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect. Moving on to your next point: > Sounds like further evidence they need to be released from their mismanagement. It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Facebook from Instagram, but my guess was that it was always for antitrust concerns. More recently, I started to sense that an additional flavor has entered this conversation recently, something like "Facebook and Instagram would be better products if they were run by independent companies." I think what people don't realize is how much effort went into building the world's most sophisticated ad targeting platform, and how convenient it was for Instagram to benefit from Facebook's resources. Not to mention the shared spam/adult/community moderation, shared hosting, etc, etc. Breaking up those apps into separate companies would definitely increase their cost of operation and would slow down their rate of development.
      - tmotwu 5y ago
        > The references I shared make it very clear that Instagram is losing market share. Not sure why those dots were difficult to connect. I said that in the context of breaking up G/FB. Why isolate that sentence for no apparent reason? It was a very short comment. > It's interesting you said that. Obviously a lot of people are in favor of breaking up Facebook from Instagram, but my guess was that it was always for antitrust concerns. More recently, I started to sense that an additional flavor has entered this conversation recently, something like "Facebook and Instagram would be better products if they were run by independent companies." There is no additional flavor. Ask yourself why we bother about antitrust. It is to raise the level of competition. Do you believe innovation is best nurtured in a competitive environment? Literally, the title of the bill consists the words a "stronger online economy", for "innovation". Pooling all your resources into ads targeting because you are comfortably sitting in a dominant position is exactly the problem. YouTube and Instagram with independent leadership would have the flexibility to focus on their market -- image/video media. That is why TikTok and Snapchat were able to catch Instagram with their pants down -- Facebook had no idea alternative forms media (and did not care) was possible and were simply focused on milking their existing platform. Better ads targeting does not bring in users, and market share is driven by users, not ads. Why does it matter if it increases their cost of operation and slows down their rate of development if the majority of their development is focused on ads targeting - an ineffective user growth strategy? The blame lies on nobody but Facebook or Google if their products have been losing marketshare in 2021.