4 ms·

For me, HN suffers in the comparison to Slashdot, because HN is an example of the arguably overmoderated internet of today. Slashdot had a vibrant culture of tr

For me, HN suffers in the comparison to Slashdot, because HN is an example of the arguably overmoderated internet of today. Slashdot had a vibrant culture of troll posting. It wasn’t just dumb one-line slurs or whatever, which no one would want to see. Rather, it was often longform text crafted to a downright literary quality, to the point where many Slashdot regulars would choose to browse their discussion threads at -1 to see those posts. Some of those troll posts ("BSD is dying", etc.) became part of the subculture, it helped create a real feeling of community around shared cultural references. Yes, on HN one can toggle "showdead", but that is rather hidden away in one's user preferences, so very few people do it. Anyone creating an original troll post might also get a chewing out from dang for trying. In my view, this makes HN more similar to Facebook or Reddit that have very heavy-handed moderation compared to Web 1.0.

flyinghamster 5y ago
On the contrary, I feel that "troll culture" is (along with commercialization) one of the things that has ruined the net. It's basically a form of bullying, and over the years, as bullies do, they've steadily escalated in their trolling. Harmless pranks from the 4chan crowd morphed into harassment campaigns like Gamergate and Pizzagate, then to 1/6 [edit: the storming of the US Capitol]. Anyone disingenuously complaining that their "freedom of speech" is under attack because they or their hero got booted off Facebook, Twitter, or some small forum, needs to learn to distinguish between private website operators and the government.
- neolog 5y ago
  I'm sure I don't want to know, but what is 1/6?
  - __turbobrew__ 5y ago
    Storming the US capitol on January 6th
- handoflixue 5y ago
  > Anyone disingenuously complaining that their "freedom of speech" is under attack "Freedom of speech" is a philosophical concept, not a legal principle. You seem to have it confused with the US-specific "First Amendment", which is the one that only applies to the government. I personally see a big problem with social media banning trans-people (Facebook), or declaring that the whole LGBT crowd is inappropriate (Livejournal, Tumblr). I think it's a problem when scientists sharing Covid-19 information get banned for being ahead of the official CDC/FDA guidance (Twitter) Maybe the solution isn't legal, but I still think it's bad that we have a massive media apparatus that can wipe out any voices it disagrees with, and which is fairly eager to use that against people like me.
  - flyinghamster 5y ago
    Good points. Scale and centralization make the world of Facebook et. al. a much thornier problem. They've become Too Big To Fail™, with all that entails. Not to mention antitrust issues, but that's a digression in itself. I see some hope in federated systems, and, for that matter, old-school forums that have survived. Usenet still sputters along, but it's not what it was before spammers ruined it.
systemvoltage 5y ago
Definitely agree, HN has been downvoting too much lately and it used to be the case that contrarian views were rarely downvoted, and it was reserved for rude comments or baseless allegations, personal attacks, etc. Today, HN sucks just like any other major discussion board. Conformism is real and downvotes are a tool used to silence and discredit real opinions and insights - although they might be uncomfortable and challenges your long held views - that's exactly the thing that I love about the old internet. HN is held hostage by people with a particular ideology and conformity, not just political, but across the board.

flyinghamster 5y ago

On the contrary, I feel that "troll culture" is (along with commercialization) one of the things that has ruined the net. It's basically a form of bullying, and over the years, as bullies do, they've steadily escalated in their trolling. Harmless pranks from the 4chan crowd morphed into harassment campaigns like Gamergate and Pizzagate, then to 1/6 [edit: the storming of the US Capitol]. Anyone disingenuously complaining that their "freedom of speech" is under attack because they or their hero got booted off Facebook, Twitter, or some small forum, needs to learn to distinguish between private website operators and the government.

neolog 5y ago
I'm sure I don't want to know, but what is 1/6?
- __turbobrew__ 5y ago
  Storming the US capitol on January 6th
handoflixue 5y ago
> Anyone disingenuously complaining that their "freedom of speech" is under attack "Freedom of speech" is a philosophical concept, not a legal principle. You seem to have it confused with the US-specific "First Amendment", which is the one that only applies to the government. I personally see a big problem with social media banning trans-people (Facebook), or declaring that the whole LGBT crowd is inappropriate (Livejournal, Tumblr). I think it's a problem when scientists sharing Covid-19 information get banned for being ahead of the official CDC/FDA guidance (Twitter) Maybe the solution isn't legal, but I still think it's bad that we have a massive media apparatus that can wipe out any voices it disagrees with, and which is fairly eager to use that against people like me.
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  Good points. Scale and centralization make the world of Facebook et. al. a much thornier problem. They've become Too Big To Fail™, with all that entails. Not to mention antitrust issues, but that's a digression in itself. I see some hope in federated systems, and, for that matter, old-school forums that have survived. Usenet still sputters along, but it's not what it was before spammers ruined it.

systemvoltage 5y ago

Definitely agree, HN has been downvoting too much lately and it used to be the case that contrarian views were rarely downvoted, and it was reserved for rude comments or baseless allegations, personal attacks, etc. Today, HN sucks just like any other major discussion board. Conformism is real and downvotes are a tool used to silence and discredit real opinions and insights - although they might be uncomfortable and challenges your long held views - that's exactly the thing that I love about the old internet. HN is held hostage by people with a particular ideology and conformity, not just political, but across the board.