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> there really are not a lot of real world use cases. It's effectively just one. To make illegal transactions. That's a long list of things: drugs, hiding we

by treis 5y ago

> there really are not a lot of real world use cases. It's effectively just one. To make illegal transactions. That's a long list of things: drugs, hiding wealth, evading currency controls, extortion, and so on. Otherwise, existing currency and transfer mechanisms are more or less available and convenient.

danuker 5y ago
> It's effectively just one. To make illegal transactions. Your perspective is limited. Check out my general intro [1] and other articles [2]. TL;DR: at least one legitimate use case is to keep up with inflation. [1] - https://danuker.go.ro/intro-to-cryptocurrencies.html https://danuker.go.ro/intro-to-cryptocurrencies.html [2] - https://danuker.go.ro/tag/cryptocurrencies.html https://danuker.go.ro/tag/cryptocurrencies.html
- valuearb 5y ago
  Yet BTC is trailing inflation by over 30% the last month alone?
  - danuker 5y ago
    Admittedly, there is high volatility due to demand. But as more get-rich-quick people get bored of it, that should stabilize.
    - aww_dang 5y ago
      Speculative mania is also driven by cheap credit, low interest rates and easy money in the form of direct stimulus.
    - crispyambulance 5y ago
      > But as more get-rich-quick people get bored of it, that should stabilize. Why do you think that will happen? The "get-rich-quick, evade-taxes, and evade-scrutiny" thing is front and center of the whole intent of cryptocurrency. How long has it been going now, 10 years? How much longer? It would be nice to have a crypto-currency where real people can use it like real currency. However, to be able to do that would mean eliminating the danger that a mere typo or some unintended consequence of "code-as-law" would wipe someone out and give another an insane windfall-- all in a millisecond. I think the cryptocurrency can work, but it has to have sane and civilized features. These have to be designed-in from the beginning. Otherwise, it's just an endless libertarian circle jerk.
  - rawtxapp 5y ago
    If we are going to cherry pick timelines, might as well compare the price right before money printers went crazy vs now.
    - valuearb 5y ago
      Speculations are always about cherry picked timelines. Which is why crypto isn’t an investment nor a hedge.
xwolfi 5y ago
I dislike crypto too, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt: it's also presented/sold as a sort of easy stock, pure of anything other than an inflation prevention. It's as electronic as a stock, as purely abstract as a piece of gold, as resistant to inflation (theoretically) as anything having an intrinsic value that won't depend on currency. Ofc, criminal transactions are also supposed to be eased but you know what, I think a bank made entirely to dodge annoying regulators will have a bit more success than an amateurish exchange: they'll give all your info, and therefore all your public transactions at the first little threat, while a big bank like Credit Suisse, would try to leverage lobbying power at first.
- capitol_ 5y ago
  I would say it's quite wrong to think of crypto as some sort of stock. Stocks are ultimately anchored in a company, and it's ability to pay dividends to it's owners. The historical average of the value creation for S&P 500 for dividends are about 40% so it's not an amount that can be disregarded. Since crypto doesn't have any similar mechanism, and all of the value is instead tied to what other persons want to buy it for, I argue that it's better to compare it to an online casino rather than an stock market. That would be more fair for those that are new to investing.
mech422 5y ago
Huh - so lets see... NewEgg accepts(1): Doge, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin cash, etc. Telsa may or may not accept Bitcoin depending on Elon's mood. And El Salvador just made bitcoin legal tender. Yep - those are all illegal transactions. Your argument boils down to "Only criminals use Tor"... Not very useful. 1) https://kb.newegg.com/knowledge-base/using-crypto-on-newegg/ https://kb.newegg.com/knowledge-base/using-crypto-on-newegg/
- DogOfTheGaps 5y ago
  Purchasing items on NewEgg with USD is simple, easy, and very fast. If you are using a credit card, you get additional benefits and protections. Additionally, per the link you provided, there are a number of restrictions on using crypto on NewEgg. What is the benefit to using crypto vs using a credit card?
  - mech422 5y ago
    Assuming you have USD (you might not be a US citizen, exchange rates, yada yada), assuming you have a credit card, etc. etc. Proof of payment is basically instant, is globally accessible and I don't have to jump thru the 'verified by visa' bullshit. Also, no spending limits - I've ordered equipment from newegg and payed for next day delivery, only to have the equipment show up late because my visa 'helpfully' twigged an 'unusual purchase'. I've also had banks tell me there are daily spending limits on debit card that are too low to buy a high end system. All these 'features' you tout have NEVER been anything except a pain in my ass. Bottom line is - one size doesn't fit all...
    - DogOfTheGaps 5y ago
      Assuming you have USD I was assuming US persons doing a transaction in the US. If you are in another country, there will be other retailers that offer services in your currency. Also NewEgg supports transactions in many currencies. you might not be a US citizen Citizenship is not relevant to purchasing items for online retailers. assuming you have a credit card Debit cards can be used just as easily. Fewer protections, but it works just fine. Also PayPal, etc. Proof of payment is basically instant, is globally accessible This is true with credit card, debit card, paypal, etc. I don't have to jump thru the 'verified by visa' bullshit This is hardly an issue. Takes a few seconds, a total non-issue for 99% of people who just want to purchase something. Also, no spending limits - I've ordered equipment from newegg and payed for next day delivery, only to have the equipment show up late because my visa 'helpfully' twigged an 'unusual purchase' Yes, there are fraud detection features for credit cards. I'm pretty sure this occurs very rarely. If you don't like this, use a debit card or paypal with a bank account. I've also had banks tell me there are daily spending limits on debit card that are too low to buy a high end system I have never run into this because I never use my debit card, ever. However, it seems this be fixed by calling your bank and raising your limit permanently. Bottom line is - one size doesn't fit all... That's right. Crypto might be right for you. But 99% of consumers who want fast, easy, and simple mechanism for purchasing items at any retailer, credit or debit will be the best choice.
Lordarminius 5y ago
I can't believe intelligent people still hold this view.
- gcatalfamo 5y ago
  I can’t believe intelligent people don’t see crypto for the ponzi scheme that it is
  - marvindanig 5y ago
    So a consumer startup by a 20yo founder with no experience, business model or an iota of revenue is a ponzi scheme too? Edit: Wait! It is so and Bay Area has been selling this pyramid scheme for years. lol.
- stiltzkin 5y ago
  Not sure if this is from intelligent person.
tim333 5y ago
You've missed speculation and gambling. Not to say it's a great use case but it's the biggest. Most people buy them because the number goes up, not to buy drugs etc. Which is perhaps a bad idea but not actually illegal.
- steveBK123 5y ago
  Yes, I think this is the 99% use case. A strong indication of this is the fact that they are very volatile and all tend to move in tandem. Normal, real G7 currencies moving full percentage points in a day is a big deal, 10% moves in a day are very rare, 20% is a once in a lifetime event. You would expect the different cryptocurrencies to move in different directions and speeds depending on their relative prospects. Instead you have these crazy days where they all go up 5-10% or down 5-10%, over and over. I hold about 8 of them in my wallet and yet still see pretty normal 10% daily moves. The closest thing this reminds me to is trading bank stocks in 07-08 when everyone was gambling on which would go out of business. A currency that regularly moves this violently is not an inflation hedge as a savings instrument store of value, nor is it a useful medium of exchange as how do you agree on a price when its moving by the hour. It is clearly not a unit of measure either given that all the crypto apps report the value of your portfolio in.. fiat. Even these crypto give aways as exchange sign up bonuses or conference prizes are always worded as "$5 of ETH" or "$500 of bitcoin", haha. A currency that can move 5% on a Sunday afternoon (again) because of an Elon Musk tweet (again) is not something to be taken too seriously (still). Consider that by comparison, when the UK voted to Brexit, which was not what polls indicated.. a huge economic change with profound generational implications for both GBP & EUR ... GBP-EUR only moved 7%!!

by treis 5y ago

danuker 5y ago

> It's effectively just one. To make illegal transactions. Your perspective is limited. Check out my general intro [1] and other articles [2]. TL;DR: at least one legitimate use case is to keep up with inflation. [1] - https://danuker.go.ro/intro-to-cryptocurrencies.html https://danuker.go.ro/intro-to-cryptocurrencies.html [2] - https://danuker.go.ro/tag/cryptocurrencies.html https://danuker.go.ro/tag/cryptocurrencies.html

valuearb 5y ago
Yet BTC is trailing inflation by over 30% the last month alone?
- danuker 5y ago
  Admittedly, there is high volatility due to demand. But as more get-rich-quick people get bored of it, that should stabilize.
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    Speculative mania is also driven by cheap credit, low interest rates and easy money in the form of direct stimulus.
  - crispyambulance 5y ago
    > But as more get-rich-quick people get bored of it, that should stabilize. Why do you think that will happen? The "get-rich-quick, evade-taxes, and evade-scrutiny" thing is front and center of the whole intent of cryptocurrency. How long has it been going now, 10 years? How much longer? It would be nice to have a crypto-currency where real people can use it like real currency. However, to be able to do that would mean eliminating the danger that a mere typo or some unintended consequence of "code-as-law" would wipe someone out and give another an insane windfall-- all in a millisecond. I think the cryptocurrency can work, but it has to have sane and civilized features. These have to be designed-in from the beginning. Otherwise, it's just an endless libertarian circle jerk.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  If we are going to cherry pick timelines, might as well compare the price right before money printers went crazy vs now.
  - valuearb 5y ago
    Speculations are always about cherry picked timelines. Which is why crypto isn’t an investment nor a hedge.

xwolfi 5y ago

I dislike crypto too, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt: it's also presented/sold as a sort of easy stock, pure of anything other than an inflation prevention. It's as electronic as a stock, as purely abstract as a piece of gold, as resistant to inflation (theoretically) as anything having an intrinsic value that won't depend on currency. Ofc, criminal transactions are also supposed to be eased but you know what, I think a bank made entirely to dodge annoying regulators will have a bit more success than an amateurish exchange: they'll give all your info, and therefore all your public transactions at the first little threat, while a big bank like Credit Suisse, would try to leverage lobbying power at first.

capitol_ 5y ago
I would say it's quite wrong to think of crypto as some sort of stock. Stocks are ultimately anchored in a company, and it's ability to pay dividends to it's owners. The historical average of the value creation for S&P 500 for dividends are about 40% so it's not an amount that can be disregarded. Since crypto doesn't have any similar mechanism, and all of the value is instead tied to what other persons want to buy it for, I argue that it's better to compare it to an online casino rather than an stock market. That would be more fair for those that are new to investing.

mech422 5y ago

Huh - so lets see... NewEgg accepts(1): Doge, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin cash, etc. Telsa may or may not accept Bitcoin depending on Elon's mood. And El Salvador just made bitcoin legal tender. Yep - those are all illegal transactions. Your argument boils down to "Only criminals use Tor"... Not very useful. 1) https://kb.newegg.com/knowledge-base/using-crypto-on-newegg/ https://kb.newegg.com/knowledge-base/using-crypto-on-newegg/

DogOfTheGaps 5y ago
Purchasing items on NewEgg with USD is simple, easy, and very fast. If you are using a credit card, you get additional benefits and protections. Additionally, per the link you provided, there are a number of restrictions on using crypto on NewEgg. What is the benefit to using crypto vs using a credit card?
- mech422 5y ago
  Assuming you have USD (you might not be a US citizen, exchange rates, yada yada), assuming you have a credit card, etc. etc. Proof of payment is basically instant, is globally accessible and I don't have to jump thru the 'verified by visa' bullshit. Also, no spending limits - I've ordered equipment from newegg and payed for next day delivery, only to have the equipment show up late because my visa 'helpfully' twigged an 'unusual purchase'. I've also had banks tell me there are daily spending limits on debit card that are too low to buy a high end system. All these 'features' you tout have NEVER been anything except a pain in my ass. Bottom line is - one size doesn't fit all...
  - DogOfTheGaps 5y ago
    Assuming you have USD I was assuming US persons doing a transaction in the US. If you are in another country, there will be other retailers that offer services in your currency. Also NewEgg supports transactions in many currencies. you might not be a US citizen Citizenship is not relevant to purchasing items for online retailers. assuming you have a credit card Debit cards can be used just as easily. Fewer protections, but it works just fine. Also PayPal, etc. Proof of payment is basically instant, is globally accessible This is true with credit card, debit card, paypal, etc. I don't have to jump thru the 'verified by visa' bullshit This is hardly an issue. Takes a few seconds, a total non-issue for 99% of people who just want to purchase something. Also, no spending limits - I've ordered equipment from newegg and payed for next day delivery, only to have the equipment show up late because my visa 'helpfully' twigged an 'unusual purchase' Yes, there are fraud detection features for credit cards. I'm pretty sure this occurs very rarely. If you don't like this, use a debit card or paypal with a bank account. I've also had banks tell me there are daily spending limits on debit card that are too low to buy a high end system I have never run into this because I never use my debit card, ever. However, it seems this be fixed by calling your bank and raising your limit permanently. Bottom line is - one size doesn't fit all... That's right. Crypto might be right for you. But 99% of consumers who want fast, easy, and simple mechanism for purchasing items at any retailer, credit or debit will be the best choice.

Lordarminius 5y ago

I can't believe intelligent people still hold this view.

gcatalfamo 5y ago
I can’t believe intelligent people don’t see crypto for the ponzi scheme that it is
- marvindanig 5y ago
  So a consumer startup by a 20yo founder with no experience, business model or an iota of revenue is a ponzi scheme too? Edit: Wait! It is so and Bay Area has been selling this pyramid scheme for years. lol.
stiltzkin 5y ago
Not sure if this is from intelligent person.

tim333 5y ago

You've missed speculation and gambling. Not to say it's a great use case but it's the biggest. Most people buy them because the number goes up, not to buy drugs etc. Which is perhaps a bad idea but not actually illegal.

steveBK123 5y ago
Yes, I think this is the 99% use case. A strong indication of this is the fact that they are very volatile and all tend to move in tandem. Normal, real G7 currencies moving full percentage points in a day is a big deal, 10% moves in a day are very rare, 20% is a once in a lifetime event. You would expect the different cryptocurrencies to move in different directions and speeds depending on their relative prospects. Instead you have these crazy days where they all go up 5-10% or down 5-10%, over and over. I hold about 8 of them in my wallet and yet still see pretty normal 10% daily moves. The closest thing this reminds me to is trading bank stocks in 07-08 when everyone was gambling on which would go out of business. A currency that regularly moves this violently is not an inflation hedge as a savings instrument store of value, nor is it a useful medium of exchange as how do you agree on a price when its moving by the hour. It is clearly not a unit of measure either given that all the crypto apps report the value of your portfolio in.. fiat. Even these crypto give aways as exchange sign up bonuses or conference prizes are always worded as "$5 of ETH" or "$500 of bitcoin", haha. A currency that can move 5% on a Sunday afternoon (again) because of an Elon Musk tweet (again) is not something to be taken too seriously (still). Consider that by comparison, when the UK voted to Brexit, which was not what polls indicated.. a huge economic change with profound generational implications for both GBP & EUR ... GBP-EUR only moved 7%!!