5 ms·

New York is a wild place. Yesterday, I visited the city I used to live and work in for only the second time since my office closed in 2020 to visit some of my o

New York is a wild place. Yesterday, I visited the city I used to live and work in for only the second time since my office closed in 2020 to visit some of my old friends. The city, itself, feels like an old friend. It's constantly changing, but always the same. I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, steeped in the lore of that city. Like most Chicagoans, I was aware that we were Second City, in reference to NYC, but felt no sense of deference to it. Incollege, I fell in love with a girl who was obsessed with NYC. She loved it more than me, and it made me resent the city even more than I did already. What could possibly be so special about it? Well, she dumped me, but somehow, I was the one who ended up building my life in NYC. I moved there for grad school, and once the city grabs you, it holds on tight. When you move to NYC, you are forced to adapt to a completely different environment and way of life from every other place in America. You learn to endure countless indignations from a city that bends to no person's will. But your reward is the survivor's pride and the right to imbibe from one of the richest anthropological pools on the planet. It's literally intoxicating. For a time, my two siblings and I all lived in the same Brooklyn neighborhood. It was a golden age. If you live in NYC long enough, you will have the experience of "vanishing New York", in which the places that hold your memories of the city inexorably close, and the friends you made shuffle off to other places. It's not your New York anymore. It's some new generation's place to come of age. They'll discover institutions that feel timeless, but are destined to be quite temporary. New York is somehow never and always the same.

hourislate 5y ago
>New York is a wild place. I had family in the East Village, spent many a summer in the city throughout the late 70's - 80's. It was very different from what most folks experience today, I don't think the under 40 crowd understands what Giuliani did for that city and how he basically made it safe and livable. It was like an insane asylum before him and anyone who spent some time there can attest to that. The experience was sort of like a war you fought, the place tried to kill you but fuck no, you were going to do everything you could to get out alive. Haven't been back for around 30 years, still have a little PTSD when it comes to that place...hahaha....
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  The whole country was much more dangerous in the 70s-80s than it was in the 2000s. https://www.statista.com/statistics/187592/death-rate-from-homicide-in-the-us-since-1950/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/187592/death-rate-from-h... NYC's peak-to-trough was bigger than the rest of the country, but it's not obvious that Giuliani was the cause, as opposed to a general trend having a more pronounced effect in the city (possibly because whatever malaise was causing the murders was more concentrated in the city). This is consistent with e.g. the lead-crime hypothesis, but there are a number of other ways that might explain the amplification of crime in the city. Edit: Although, upon looking at this more, in NYC the decline was really pronounced at the beginning of Giuliani's tenure. I am politically predisposed to discredit Giuliani because of his more recent antics, but it's also true that bad people can sometimes accomplish good things. I looked for evidence on this topic and it does seem that the increased enforcement of crimes during Giuliani's mayorship probably had some significant effects on crime. I regret the implication that it did not, since it seems I was likely incorrect.
  - gogopuppygogo 5y ago
    I’ve read the decline in crime and overall improvements in society being safer is a direct result of the reduction in lead exposure: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615
    - steveBK123 5y ago
      Most studies show at best it was a 33% contributor.
  - burlesona 5y ago
    I know nothing about the NYC / Giuliani subject so no comment on that part. But I wanted to say I really appreciate your edit. I admire your willingness to check your own bias and then consider the possibility that it misled you.
    - 5y ago
amznbyebyebye 5y ago
Reads like a pg essay :)
Ericson2314 5y ago
> It's not your New York anymore. It's some new generation's place to come of age. I think what the local complainers take issue with is that New York being a mating ritual for young well-to-do transplants in the first place.
- ardit33 5y ago
  they are came from somewhere too, nobody owns the city. It is ridiculous when you see some locals tell white people to "go back to Ohio". Their parents came from somewhere else and had to face the same thing. Typical story of the bullied becoming a bully.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    I'm not anti-migration, but it's also not ridiculous. The inadequacy of there being enough construction means rents go up, especially with the recent past being so much cheaper due to white flight it's a hard bar to meet. Without enough construction we can even ignore rents/prices, and say if people arrive (a smaller number of) people also need to leave. If NYC doesn't want this quasi-0-sum dynamic, it needs to build a lot more than it has. Back to the original sentiment, being gentrified by people who are themselves going to leave after a few years has a certain extra sting to it, I can only imagine.
    - epistasis 5y ago
      Is the lack of construction the fault of the people arriving, or of the people that have lived there a long time and have set the political agenda? Folks who bemoan the loss of what they have known but also at the same time refuse to allow more space for population growth are causing the very problems that they complain about. I'm on a different coast, but have lost so many friends that don't have high powered careers, and it stings really hard. But it's not the fault of people moving into my town. It's 100% the fault of the people who are unwelcoming and falsely believe that if they preserve physical structures it will somehow help the people with less economic power.
busterarm 5y ago
> If you live in NYC long enough, you will have the experience of "vanishing New York", in which the places that hold your memories of the city inexorably close, and the friends you made shuffle off to other places. It's not your New York anymore. It's some new generation's place to come of age. They'll discover institutions that feel timeless, but are destined to be quite temporary. It's less the "vanishing New York" than the "vanishing self". Lifelong New Yorker weighing in here but the story most people don't get is from the people who've been here _too long_. People that are defeated. My experience and my experience with most of the folks who've stuck around too long is that the city drives you just a little bit crazy. Even if you're successful in your career here, there is some way that the city has beaten you down (likely w/ family). Most people don't have generations of their family here and those that do often don't share the big ambitions of all of their transplant peers who flock to the city in droves and dominate its population. Every New Yorker eventually has a time to leave. Most of us talk about how we hope we don't die here.
- Maven911 5y ago
  Wow that's very deep. As an Astorian who lived there for a few years, and I never got to see that side of the equation. I do know some that have deep found regrets that their family never purchased property, since it's appreciated quite a bit with time
halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
Me and my wife just left NYC after living there for 7/9 years, respectively. I was born in Oak Park and grew up in the Chi burbs, we just moved back to Lake View East. We are both going through a very real, raw and emotional withdrawal from NYC, especially after living through COVID there. Like you said, after you live in NYC for a good number of years you realized you survived living in one of the most dynamic and chaotic environments on Earth; finally becoming a New Yorker in the process. Leaving NYC to literally anywhere else on the planet after that adaptation leaves a large emptiness and sorrow that can only be equated to a death. However, the worst (and also best) part is that NYC still exists and people continue to make the City thrive. With a normal death, the person dies and there is closure. When you leave NYC, a piece of you dies but the City lives on in a taunting fashion, always trying to lure you back. I believe we'll move back to NYC some time in the future and fill that emptiness but until that time comes, we'll revel in the things Chi provides that NYC does not: the Lake/Lake Shore trail/Lincoln Park, Wrigley(ville) and Midwestern hospitality.
mtalantikite 5y ago
I was walking around the LES Wednesday night with some friends down by 169 bar and was realizing that the city has started to feel younger and more wild again. People drinking beers on the street, smoking weed everywhere, just out and joyous. It was reminding me of being 23 in the city again (I’m 37 now), before Brooklyn hyper gentrified. Maybe it’s just everyone brushing off the past year of isolation, but some of that young magic felt more palpable than I had felt right before the pandemic hit. I’m happy the younger kids are out doing their thing again.
- acjohnson55 5y ago
  Every generation deserves it!
- throw_this_one 5y ago
  I'm not even old, 29. But I feel jaded to go out into that bustle and do that stuff lol. Although hopping around the EV and such bar scene is kinda exciting, the people you will meet and the hot girls.
throwaway743 5y ago
> vanishing New York RIP Eisenberg's, Autumn Bowl skate sessions, circa 07 hidden Williamsburg warehouse waterfront skyline viewing spot, the old Chinatown Fair, and countless others.
jjav 5y ago
Manhattan is definitely awesome, a missed goal for me. In the 90s I lived across the river in NJ and spent all my free time in Manhattan. Wanted to move there so bad it hurt, but was never able to find anything I could make work, too expensive. Eventually gave up on that and moved to Silicon Valley. So much cheaper here and mostly forgot about Manhattan. Visited again for the first time just before the pandemic for a conference and suddenly realized how much I missed it. But the compromises are too brutal. Endless threads here about the cost of living in SV but at least renting a house with FANG salary is possible. Comparable living in Manhattan is impossible unless you're Bezos. If I ever win 100M++ in a powerball I'll move to Manhattan, but that will never happen.

hourislate 5y ago

>New York is a wild place. I had family in the East Village, spent many a summer in the city throughout the late 70's - 80's. It was very different from what most folks experience today, I don't think the under 40 crowd understands what Giuliani did for that city and how he basically made it safe and livable. It was like an insane asylum before him and anyone who spent some time there can attest to that. The experience was sort of like a war you fought, the place tried to kill you but fuck no, you were going to do everything you could to get out alive. Haven't been back for around 30 years, still have a little PTSD when it comes to that place...hahaha....

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
The whole country was much more dangerous in the 70s-80s than it was in the 2000s. https://www.statista.com/statistics/187592/death-rate-from-homicide-in-the-us-since-1950/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/187592/death-rate-from-h... NYC's peak-to-trough was bigger than the rest of the country, but it's not obvious that Giuliani was the cause, as opposed to a general trend having a more pronounced effect in the city (possibly because whatever malaise was causing the murders was more concentrated in the city). This is consistent with e.g. the lead-crime hypothesis, but there are a number of other ways that might explain the amplification of crime in the city. Edit: Although, upon looking at this more, in NYC the decline was really pronounced at the beginning of Giuliani's tenure. I am politically predisposed to discredit Giuliani because of his more recent antics, but it's also true that bad people can sometimes accomplish good things. I looked for evidence on this topic and it does seem that the increased enforcement of crimes during Giuliani's mayorship probably had some significant effects on crime. I regret the implication that it did not, since it seems I was likely incorrect.
- gogopuppygogo 5y ago
  I’ve read the decline in crime and overall improvements in society being safer is a direct result of the reduction in lead exposure: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27067615
  - steveBK123 5y ago
    Most studies show at best it was a 33% contributor.
- burlesona 5y ago
  I know nothing about the NYC / Giuliani subject so no comment on that part. But I wanted to say I really appreciate your edit. I admire your willingness to check your own bias and then consider the possibility that it misled you.
  - 5y ago

amznbyebyebye 5y ago

Reads like a pg essay :)

Ericson2314 5y ago

> It's not your New York anymore. It's some new generation's place to come of age. I think what the local complainers take issue with is that New York being a mating ritual for young well-to-do transplants in the first place.

ardit33 5y ago
they are came from somewhere too, nobody owns the city. It is ridiculous when you see some locals tell white people to "go back to Ohio". Their parents came from somewhere else and had to face the same thing. Typical story of the bullied becoming a bully.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  I'm not anti-migration, but it's also not ridiculous. The inadequacy of there being enough construction means rents go up, especially with the recent past being so much cheaper due to white flight it's a hard bar to meet. Without enough construction we can even ignore rents/prices, and say if people arrive (a smaller number of) people also need to leave. If NYC doesn't want this quasi-0-sum dynamic, it needs to build a lot more than it has. Back to the original sentiment, being gentrified by people who are themselves going to leave after a few years has a certain extra sting to it, I can only imagine.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Is the lack of construction the fault of the people arriving, or of the people that have lived there a long time and have set the political agenda? Folks who bemoan the loss of what they have known but also at the same time refuse to allow more space for population growth are causing the very problems that they complain about. I'm on a different coast, but have lost so many friends that don't have high powered careers, and it stings really hard. But it's not the fault of people moving into my town. It's 100% the fault of the people who are unwelcoming and falsely believe that if they preserve physical structures it will somehow help the people with less economic power.

busterarm 5y ago

> If you live in NYC long enough, you will have the experience of "vanishing New York", in which the places that hold your memories of the city inexorably close, and the friends you made shuffle off to other places. It's not your New York anymore. It's some new generation's place to come of age. They'll discover institutions that feel timeless, but are destined to be quite temporary. It's less the "vanishing New York" than the "vanishing self". Lifelong New Yorker weighing in here but the story most people don't get is from the people who've been here _too long_. People that are defeated. My experience and my experience with most of the folks who've stuck around too long is that the city drives you just a little bit crazy. Even if you're successful in your career here, there is some way that the city has beaten you down (likely w/ family). Most people don't have generations of their family here and those that do often don't share the big ambitions of all of their transplant peers who flock to the city in droves and dominate its population. Every New Yorker eventually has a time to leave. Most of us talk about how we hope we don't die here.

Maven911 5y ago
Wow that's very deep. As an Astorian who lived there for a few years, and I never got to see that side of the equation. I do know some that have deep found regrets that their family never purchased property, since it's appreciated quite a bit with time

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago

Me and my wife just left NYC after living there for 7/9 years, respectively. I was born in Oak Park and grew up in the Chi burbs, we just moved back to Lake View East. We are both going through a very real, raw and emotional withdrawal from NYC, especially after living through COVID there. Like you said, after you live in NYC for a good number of years you realized you survived living in one of the most dynamic and chaotic environments on Earth; finally becoming a New Yorker in the process. Leaving NYC to literally anywhere else on the planet after that adaptation leaves a large emptiness and sorrow that can only be equated to a death. However, the worst (and also best) part is that NYC still exists and people continue to make the City thrive. With a normal death, the person dies and there is closure. When you leave NYC, a piece of you dies but the City lives on in a taunting fashion, always trying to lure you back. I believe we'll move back to NYC some time in the future and fill that emptiness but until that time comes, we'll revel in the things Chi provides that NYC does not: the Lake/Lake Shore trail/Lincoln Park, Wrigley(ville) and Midwestern hospitality.

mtalantikite 5y ago

I was walking around the LES Wednesday night with some friends down by 169 bar and was realizing that the city has started to feel younger and more wild again. People drinking beers on the street, smoking weed everywhere, just out and joyous. It was reminding me of being 23 in the city again (I’m 37 now), before Brooklyn hyper gentrified. Maybe it’s just everyone brushing off the past year of isolation, but some of that young magic felt more palpable than I had felt right before the pandemic hit. I’m happy the younger kids are out doing their thing again.

acjohnson55 5y ago
Every generation deserves it!
throw_this_one 5y ago
I'm not even old, 29. But I feel jaded to go out into that bustle and do that stuff lol. Although hopping around the EV and such bar scene is kinda exciting, the people you will meet and the hot girls.

throwaway743 5y ago

> vanishing New York RIP Eisenberg's, Autumn Bowl skate sessions, circa 07 hidden Williamsburg warehouse waterfront skyline viewing spot, the old Chinatown Fair, and countless others.

jjav 5y ago

Manhattan is definitely awesome, a missed goal for me. In the 90s I lived across the river in NJ and spent all my free time in Manhattan. Wanted to move there so bad it hurt, but was never able to find anything I could make work, too expensive. Eventually gave up on that and moved to Silicon Valley. So much cheaper here and mostly forgot about Manhattan. Visited again for the first time just before the pandemic for a conference and suddenly realized how much I missed it. But the compromises are too brutal. Endless threads here about the cost of living in SV but at least renting a house with FANG salary is possible. Comparable living in Manhattan is impossible unless you're Bezos. If I ever win 100M++ in a powerball I'll move to Manhattan, but that will never happen.