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I think the problem could have been avoided if she had entered a less strict convent/order (I imagine such a thing exists). That way she could devote her life t

I think the problem could have been avoided if she had entered a less strict convent/order (I imagine such a thing exists). That way she could devote her life to it yet still have visiting rights under normal conditions. As an anecdote/aside, I have a long time friend who - when we met - wasn't religious or spiritual in any outwardly noticeable way. She had a handful of interests, enjoyed discussing many life topics, and had a well-paying sales job with a good company. As the years went on, she had three kids from unhealthy romantic relationships, became more and more spiritual and gave up her job to start a part-time, new age micro business. Not only did her income go way, way down to the point that she constantly struggles to pay her bills, but everything she says is spiritually-motivated. In a real sense, she stopped being a person and became a mouth-piece of her spiritual beliefs. I recently realized she's no different than a monk or a nun (whose beliefs are weaved into everything they say), only she still lives in the real world. As a result of all this, our deep and diverse weekly discussions became less and less frequent (to the point of being almost non-existent), not to mention extremely unidimensional. She might as well have gone to live in a convent because I lost my friend all the same. Am I happy she's happy doing what she loves? Sure, but I also mourn the almost complete loss of the person I knew.

codingdave 5y ago
> no different than a monk or a nun (whose beliefs are weaved into everything they say) How many monks or nuns have you know? I grew up going to Catholic schools, and can assure you that monks, nun, and priests are real people who have real conversation. Maybe not the ones who choose to join the specific order the woman from the article joined, but in general, yes. I can sympathize that your friend grew apart from you. I've had friends do the same. But that is life. It would be short-sighted to write off entire groups of people because of one person's experience.
- personlurking 5y ago
  >I grew up going to Catholic schools Me, too. Church every Sunday and Bible studies every week (for many years), plus Catholic school (for a year). I'm not saying they are one-dimentional. I'm saying their views on many subjects tend to be filtered through their religious belief. Different from a plumber, a banker or a teacher who wouldn't filter their perspectives on many subjects through their vocation.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Different from a plumber, a banker or a teacher who wouldn't filter their perspectives on many subjects through their vocation. Not their job, but in many cases they’d filter it through their religious, political, or otherwise ideological beliefs. Which, ib the case of specifically Catholic religious views would (as well as their status as a married person or committed single) be considered as much part of their vocation as it would be for someone called to religious life and/or holy orders.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  Roman Catholics monks often being "real people who have real conversation" is largely the result of certain monastic orders being created with laxer rules on interacting with the secular world. Historically, and still today within stricter Catholics orders and in the Eastern Orthodox tradition, monks and nuns are encouraged to limit conversation on secular themes. Definitely one can go and interact with the monks or nuns, but that interaction is best limited to conversation on spiritual themes, discussion of work that has to be done, or just enjoying the silence together.
- cafard 5y ago
  My folks knew a woman who became a Discalced Carmelite. Visiting was mostly through a screen. On the other hand, I distinctly remember going with my mom into the convent garden, on the nun's invitation, to get some plants to take home. This would have been about 1973. Whether a man would have been allowed into the garden in the 1950s, of course I have no idea. This woman did have general conversation, yes. I understand that she later became a hermit.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> I think the problem could have been avoided if she had entered a less strict convent/order (I imagine such a thing exists). Non-cloistered orders not only exist, but are the largest for both men and women.

codingdave 5y ago

> no different than a monk or a nun (whose beliefs are weaved into everything they say) How many monks or nuns have you know? I grew up going to Catholic schools, and can assure you that monks, nun, and priests are real people who have real conversation. Maybe not the ones who choose to join the specific order the woman from the article joined, but in general, yes. I can sympathize that your friend grew apart from you. I've had friends do the same. But that is life. It would be short-sighted to write off entire groups of people because of one person's experience.

personlurking 5y ago
>I grew up going to Catholic schools Me, too. Church every Sunday and Bible studies every week (for many years), plus Catholic school (for a year). I'm not saying they are one-dimentional. I'm saying their views on many subjects tend to be filtered through their religious belief. Different from a plumber, a banker or a teacher who wouldn't filter their perspectives on many subjects through their vocation.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Different from a plumber, a banker or a teacher who wouldn't filter their perspectives on many subjects through their vocation. Not their job, but in many cases they’d filter it through their religious, political, or otherwise ideological beliefs. Which, ib the case of specifically Catholic religious views would (as well as their status as a married person or committed single) be considered as much part of their vocation as it would be for someone called to religious life and/or holy orders.
Mediterraneo10 5y ago
Roman Catholics monks often being "real people who have real conversation" is largely the result of certain monastic orders being created with laxer rules on interacting with the secular world. Historically, and still today within stricter Catholics orders and in the Eastern Orthodox tradition, monks and nuns are encouraged to limit conversation on secular themes. Definitely one can go and interact with the monks or nuns, but that interaction is best limited to conversation on spiritual themes, discussion of work that has to be done, or just enjoying the silence together.
cafard 5y ago
My folks knew a woman who became a Discalced Carmelite. Visiting was mostly through a screen. On the other hand, I distinctly remember going with my mom into the convent garden, on the nun's invitation, to get some plants to take home. This would have been about 1973. Whether a man would have been allowed into the garden in the 1950s, of course I have no idea. This woman did have general conversation, yes. I understand that she later became a hermit.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> I think the problem could have been avoided if she had entered a less strict convent/order (I imagine such a thing exists). Non-cloistered orders not only exist, but are the largest for both men and women.