4 ms·

Russia did not have a plan to exterminate them, you are thinking from a Nazi POV. They were probably just interested in not having them in Russia because of the

by ssijak 5y ago

Russia did not have a plan to exterminate them, you are thinking from a Nazi POV. They were probably just interested in not having them in Russia because of the religion.

vmception 5y ago
The Nazi solutions weren’t all extermination either, until the final solution. There were several solutions/plans that were thwarted due to poor calculation. The Madagascar Plan makes so much more since for longevity than the Jewish Nationalist plan on the Mediterranean.
- yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Sorry, but this is a very naive point of view. The Nazi solution was to kill as many of everything as fast they can, the t4 programme and hands on killings were already daily business. The only thing holding the Nazis back was a functional USSR, as soon they anticipated the fall of Moscow, the termination camps have been built in no time. They also maintained many concentration camps long before the decisive conference at Wannsee. The systematic killings started in June 41. The construction and initial glassings via gas vans started before the Wannsee conference, they couldn't wait long enough to get started. Hitler stated as early as 1922 to a journalist that his first and foremost task will be the annihilation of Jews. He simply had to keep a bit of international reputation and was not sure if the army and other lackeys would be ready to commit mass genocide on civilians. After the cowardly operation Barbarossa, there were no doubts any more. There are no ifs or whatever about this, the German population will forever be marked as the biggest suckers in mankind for allowing this man to power and have him and his rich buddies stay in power. There were heroic people who had seen the painting on the wall and died for the cause, then there were the complicit, active clogs in the machine and the most cowardly, the "neutral/passive" parts of the population who accepted the state of affairs and hoped it might either away without consequences for them. And then there's people like you, to this day believing the Jewish solution would have seriously been a peaceful relocation, which would have killed many as well. Ask yourself in which of the 3 aforementioned groups you would most likely be.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    I upvoted you, simply because you state facts. Frankly, while we know a majority either supported or at least accepted Nazi policy, condemning all Germans from back the day is a tad harsh. Simply, because people back then didn't have much of a choice after 1933. And Nazi propaganda was quite effective. I have more of an issue with the fact, that denazification wasn't even half as thorough as it should have been. A combination of national denial / shame and Cold War realities had people like Fillbinger make distinguished careers after the war. Despite being a hard core Nazi judge he rose to prime minister of Baden-Württemberg. But I guess, that was the best possible outcome after all.
    - yawaworht1978 5y ago
      Thanks for the upvote, you do have a valid point, most of the opposition was shut down one way or another. My main issue with the German population was them not seeing on what the economy was based back then and the many saying "we did not know". This simply does not pass the sniffing test. I agree, as usual with conflict riddled nations, the state apparatus is never entirely changed, many got off without any consequences whatsoever, the ones who paid were soldiers and the whole of eastern Germany and all places which were invaded and plundered by the USSR. I share the exact same view as you , just worded differently.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        I had both sides of "we did not know" in my family. On the one side of my grandparents you had my grandmother being warned of by SS to stop leaving food on her employers door step, on the other side you had "we didn't know, nobody did and was hard for us as well". My conclusion, and took really long to get there, is that it was easy to fall for Nazi propaganda. Even grandma one did like the Bund Deutscher Mädel a lot. I even get why you would end up fighting, because to a degree you did defend your home. I think that, if you bought to much into it, once the full gravity hit after the war, a loy of people just preferred to push it all away. Facing that you served and sacrificed that much for a regime that evil is hard to swallow. And I agree, the full scope of the Holocaust, and not the fate of jews and others, came as a nasty surprise to a lot of people. All that was made easier by the cold war. All of a sudden the western allies agreed that the Communists were the real enemy. So in a way, you fought the right war. At least you could tell yourself that lie without too much push back. I think that this is also the reason why people like Schindler and all the others were sidelined the way they were. They showed everyone the lies they were telling themselves.

by ssijak 5y ago

Russia did not have a plan to exterminate them, you are thinking from a Nazi POV. They were probably just interested in not having them in Russia because of the religion.

vmception 5y ago

The Nazi solutions weren’t all extermination either, until the final solution. There were several solutions/plans that were thwarted due to poor calculation. The Madagascar Plan makes so much more since for longevity than the Jewish Nationalist plan on the Mediterranean.

yawaworht1978 5y ago
Sorry, but this is a very naive point of view. The Nazi solution was to kill as many of everything as fast they can, the t4 programme and hands on killings were already daily business. The only thing holding the Nazis back was a functional USSR, as soon they anticipated the fall of Moscow, the termination camps have been built in no time. They also maintained many concentration camps long before the decisive conference at Wannsee. The systematic killings started in June 41. The construction and initial glassings via gas vans started before the Wannsee conference, they couldn't wait long enough to get started. Hitler stated as early as 1922 to a journalist that his first and foremost task will be the annihilation of Jews. He simply had to keep a bit of international reputation and was not sure if the army and other lackeys would be ready to commit mass genocide on civilians. After the cowardly operation Barbarossa, there were no doubts any more. There are no ifs or whatever about this, the German population will forever be marked as the biggest suckers in mankind for allowing this man to power and have him and his rich buddies stay in power. There were heroic people who had seen the painting on the wall and died for the cause, then there were the complicit, active clogs in the machine and the most cowardly, the "neutral/passive" parts of the population who accepted the state of affairs and hoped it might either away without consequences for them. And then there's people like you, to this day believing the Jewish solution would have seriously been a peaceful relocation, which would have killed many as well. Ask yourself in which of the 3 aforementioned groups you would most likely be.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I upvoted you, simply because you state facts. Frankly, while we know a majority either supported or at least accepted Nazi policy, condemning all Germans from back the day is a tad harsh. Simply, because people back then didn't have much of a choice after 1933. And Nazi propaganda was quite effective. I have more of an issue with the fact, that denazification wasn't even half as thorough as it should have been. A combination of national denial / shame and Cold War realities had people like Fillbinger make distinguished careers after the war. Despite being a hard core Nazi judge he rose to prime minister of Baden-Württemberg. But I guess, that was the best possible outcome after all.
  - yawaworht1978 5y ago
    Thanks for the upvote, you do have a valid point, most of the opposition was shut down one way or another. My main issue with the German population was them not seeing on what the economy was based back then and the many saying "we did not know". This simply does not pass the sniffing test. I agree, as usual with conflict riddled nations, the state apparatus is never entirely changed, many got off without any consequences whatsoever, the ones who paid were soldiers and the whole of eastern Germany and all places which were invaded and plundered by the USSR. I share the exact same view as you , just worded differently.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      I had both sides of "we did not know" in my family. On the one side of my grandparents you had my grandmother being warned of by SS to stop leaving food on her employers door step, on the other side you had "we didn't know, nobody did and was hard for us as well". My conclusion, and took really long to get there, is that it was easy to fall for Nazi propaganda. Even grandma one did like the Bund Deutscher Mädel a lot. I even get why you would end up fighting, because to a degree you did defend your home. I think that, if you bought to much into it, once the full gravity hit after the war, a loy of people just preferred to push it all away. Facing that you served and sacrificed that much for a regime that evil is hard to swallow. And I agree, the full scope of the Holocaust, and not the fate of jews and others, came as a nasty surprise to a lot of people. All that was made easier by the cold war. All of a sudden the western allies agreed that the Communists were the real enemy. So in a way, you fought the right war. At least you could tell yourself that lie without too much push back. I think that this is also the reason why people like Schindler and all the others were sidelined the way they were. They showed everyone the lies they were telling themselves.