5 ms·

Seriously, give it a shot if you haven’t already. It’s dead simple to install and “just works.”

by maddyboo 5y ago

brainbag 5y ago
What problems does it solve? Is it just a "shared network" VPN? The web site says what it is but not why.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  It gives you access to your machines from across the Internet.
  - dsyrk 5y ago
    It seems to basically be tinc but “modernized”
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    What about printers/scanners? Can it make your entire LAN available over a single device?
    - dave_universetf 5y ago
      It can, see https://tailscale.com/kb/1019/subnets/ https://tailscale.com/kb/1019/subnets/ . There's more work for us to do for more "automagic" behavior. For example, I want my home desktop to offer proxying to my printer without having to set up a full-fat subnet router.
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
        That's awesome. That would have been the only thing stopping me from trying it out.
  - solipsism 5y ago
    That's what it is not why. For most people the response to this will be "why would I want to do that?" There may be good reasons. But they'll need to be explicitly spelled out for most users.
    - skybrian 5y ago
      It sounds like you'd want it if you have machines on your local network that you want to use when you're not at home. (Or you have some other machines somewhere else.) If you just have mobile devices and always take them with you, or don't care about accessing a desktop computer when you're away, it's maybe not that interesting?
- gravypod 5y ago
  It's BeyondCorp done at a network layer. You have cryptographic trust that traffic from specific IP ranges are specific people, you get a flat network topology for your infra/team/etc, and it works in the most hostile network environments. The tailscale team has gone through great lengths to handle a lot of edge cases and hacks in the infrastructure at many corporate networks.
Wintereise 5y ago
What does it do that Zerotier doesn't already? I've been using that for a few years now, works flawlessly.
- atonse 5y ago
  That you can get it up and running in 5 minutes. No joke, I did it one day before jumping into the car to go to the park to work on a day with nice weather. It let me SSH back into my Mac Mini to compile elixir and run VS Code Remote and not kill my battery, but still have zero latency UIs over cellular tethering. I tried Zerotier a few years ago and maybe I just did something wrong but I couldn't get it working for an hour and gave up.
  - viraptor 5y ago
    Not sure if 5 years ago it was much different, but I've been using it for ~3 years and the process is trivial. Setup your account, install client, join your network, click "auth" on the website by the new client. It just works.
    - jbverschoor 5y ago
      Was the same 5 years ago
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    what do you mean. zerotier is literally just running, creating a network in the dashboard and allowing your machines
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    Also, zerotier supports non-IP protocols. IPX for example which is pretty cool.
  - Wintereise 5y ago
    I'm not sure where it went wrong for you, but I had Zerotier up in 5 minutes as well. Basically sign up for account -> install -> allow to join network in Dashboard. That was it.
jbverschoor 5y ago
I actually use both. Here are my observations: - Tailscale is an IPv4 vpn. Zerotier is a virtual ethernet switch. - Tailscale does not do ipv6, ipx, or any other protocol. Zerotier doe. - Zerotier supports multiple networks. Tailscale only has 1 network per account. So it's not possible to be connected to WORK1, WORK2, HOME at the same time. - Zerotier handles broadcast / multicast perfectly. - Tailscale uses wireguard, whichs means it's probably going to be more compatible - Tailscale forces SSO on certain domains (for example gmail). I really don't like being forced to use this. It's nice to have the option, but usually they require too much information. - Tailscale uses login credentials to link machines, vs using machine keys in zerotier. I prefer zerotier's method, as I really don't want do the whole login flow all machines. - Tailscale by default expires the sessions after X amount of time. Super annoying when you discover things are not working, because you didn't change a setting somewhere - On mac, tailscale uses a VPN tunnel. Zerotier creates a virtual interface. I prefer zerotier's method. - Because of this, tailscale is available via the appstore (mac). I like that. Both are available on the ios app store - Both have some sort of SDN language / configuration. - Tailscale is only an ACL type config, which is good enough for most - Zerotier's is more extensive, and allows cool things such as redirecting packets to a different machine for inspection. Great for security monitoring and other stuff. - Tailscale comes with a built-in dns, which is nice. Zerotier is working on that - Zerotier has public networks. While I think it's a bad idea, it's pretty fun and dangerous In terms of stability and performance, they're both stable and fast. Somehow zerotier does not get as much love as wireguard. Or nobody talks about it ;-) Tailscale seems to forcus more on higher layer apps (filedrops, service discovery (just a portscan), simple firewall rules), while Zerotier seems to focus more on the technicalities. Tailscale is trying to look for which value adding features are popular amongst clients. This makes sense, as tailscale simply uses wireguard, and zerotier is their own tech. Zerotier seems to be run by networking people. This is also the things that works against zerotier.. UI is clunky, the SDN language is difficult, no service discovery. Imo zerotier's updates and development is very slow. Not sure why.. Maybe they lack a roadmap. For zerotier to be easier to use, they could create a visual editor for the networks, by actually showing a switch, using cables on the ports, and different colors for different rules. This is more in line of what they do (global ethernet switch), instead of a VPN. Also, I think zerotier should do more official integrations with routers / nas. Wireguard at a certain point will be integrated in all routers, because it's in the linux kernel.

Seriously, give it a shot if you haven’t already. It’s dead simple to install and “just works.”

brainbag 5y ago

What problems does it solve? Is it just a "shared network" VPN? The web site says what it is but not why.

alisonkisk 5y ago
It gives you access to your machines from across the Internet.
- dsyrk 5y ago
  It seems to basically be tinc but “modernized”
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  What about printers/scanners? Can it make your entire LAN available over a single device?
  - dave_universetf 5y ago
    It can, see https://tailscale.com/kb/1019/subnets/ https://tailscale.com/kb/1019/subnets/ . There's more work for us to do for more "automagic" behavior. For example, I want my home desktop to offer proxying to my printer without having to set up a full-fat subnet router.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      That's awesome. That would have been the only thing stopping me from trying it out.
- solipsism 5y ago
  That's what it is not why. For most people the response to this will be "why would I want to do that?" There may be good reasons. But they'll need to be explicitly spelled out for most users.
  - skybrian 5y ago
    It sounds like you'd want it if you have machines on your local network that you want to use when you're not at home. (Or you have some other machines somewhere else.) If you just have mobile devices and always take them with you, or don't care about accessing a desktop computer when you're away, it's maybe not that interesting?
gravypod 5y ago
It's BeyondCorp done at a network layer. You have cryptographic trust that traffic from specific IP ranges are specific people, you get a flat network topology for your infra/team/etc, and it works in the most hostile network environments. The tailscale team has gone through great lengths to handle a lot of edge cases and hacks in the infrastructure at many corporate networks.

Wintereise 5y ago

What does it do that Zerotier doesn't already? I've been using that for a few years now, works flawlessly.

atonse 5y ago
That you can get it up and running in 5 minutes. No joke, I did it one day before jumping into the car to go to the park to work on a day with nice weather. It let me SSH back into my Mac Mini to compile elixir and run VS Code Remote and not kill my battery, but still have zero latency UIs over cellular tethering. I tried Zerotier a few years ago and maybe I just did something wrong but I couldn't get it working for an hour and gave up.
- viraptor 5y ago
  Not sure if 5 years ago it was much different, but I've been using it for ~3 years and the process is trivial. Setup your account, install client, join your network, click "auth" on the website by the new client. It just works.
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    Was the same 5 years ago
- jbverschoor 5y ago
  what do you mean. zerotier is literally just running, creating a network in the dashboard and allowing your machines
- jbverschoor 5y ago
  Also, zerotier supports non-IP protocols. IPX for example which is pretty cool.
- Wintereise 5y ago
  I'm not sure where it went wrong for you, but I had Zerotier up in 5 minutes as well. Basically sign up for account -> install -> allow to join network in Dashboard. That was it.

jbverschoor 5y ago

I actually use both. Here are my observations: - Tailscale is an IPv4 vpn. Zerotier is a virtual ethernet switch. - Tailscale does not do ipv6, ipx, or any other protocol. Zerotier doe. - Zerotier supports multiple networks. Tailscale only has 1 network per account. So it's not possible to be connected to WORK1, WORK2, HOME at the same time. - Zerotier handles broadcast / multicast perfectly. - Tailscale uses wireguard, whichs means it's probably going to be more compatible - Tailscale forces SSO on certain domains (for example gmail). I really don't like being forced to use this. It's nice to have the option, but usually they require too much information. - Tailscale uses login credentials to link machines, vs using machine keys in zerotier. I prefer zerotier's method, as I really don't want do the whole login flow all machines. - Tailscale by default expires the sessions after X amount of time. Super annoying when you discover things are not working, because you didn't change a setting somewhere - On mac, tailscale uses a VPN tunnel. Zerotier creates a virtual interface. I prefer zerotier's method. - Because of this, tailscale is available via the appstore (mac). I like that. Both are available on the ios app store - Both have some sort of SDN language / configuration. - Tailscale is only an ACL type config, which is good enough for most - Zerotier's is more extensive, and allows cool things such as redirecting packets to a different machine for inspection. Great for security monitoring and other stuff. - Tailscale comes with a built-in dns, which is nice. Zerotier is working on that - Zerotier has public networks. While I think it's a bad idea, it's pretty fun and dangerous In terms of stability and performance, they're both stable and fast. Somehow zerotier does not get as much love as wireguard. Or nobody talks about it ;-) Tailscale seems to forcus more on higher layer apps (filedrops, service discovery (just a portscan), simple firewall rules), while Zerotier seems to focus more on the technicalities. Tailscale is trying to look for which value adding features are popular amongst clients. This makes sense, as tailscale simply uses wireguard, and zerotier is their own tech. Zerotier seems to be run by networking people. This is also the things that works against zerotier.. UI is clunky, the SDN language is difficult, no service discovery. Imo zerotier's updates and development is very slow. Not sure why.. Maybe they lack a roadmap. For zerotier to be easier to use, they could create a visual editor for the networks, by actually showing a switch, using cables on the ports, and different colors for different rules. This is more in line of what they do (global ethernet switch), instead of a VPN. Also, I think zerotier should do more official integrations with routers / nas. Wireguard at a certain point will be integrated in all routers, because it's in the linux kernel.