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No country is willingly importing this divisive rhetoric. Aspirational young citizens who repeat the same formula within their home countries and are quickly re

by sms737 5y ago

No country is willingly importing this divisive rhetoric. Aspirational young citizens who repeat the same formula within their home countries and are quickly rewarded with status and power. So the scourge continues. Short-term, this toxic, zero-sum behaviour reaps havoc. Long-term, American culture capital will have been exhausted and the US will have signed its own death warrant.

jollybean 5y ago
Oh, they are definitely willingly importing it. If there is ABC movement from a powerful country, then those in the external country will want to use that to further their agenda to the degree that it is aligned with their own. The CIA used to (and still does) try to push some kinds of narratives aboard, most prominently in the 'flower' revolutions in E. Europe, but much of the pop culture one's just happen 'organically'. Particularly in the Anglosphere.
- lugged 5y ago
  Maybe. In Australia the anti lockdown / anti Vax stuff got shut down quite quickly. Same goes for the BLM protests that tried it on without the right permits. Kind of glad I don't have to put up with the same crap here or the media trying to call it peaceful. I think it has a lot to do with the multi party system. I don't have to align myself with one party or the other party, and all its polarising crap along with it. If one party has too much polarising rhetoric I can just pick a more moderate party.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    George Floyd protests in Australia [1] I'm not saying this is good or bad, but I'm saying all sorts of movements cross the US border in an organic manner. Edit: if you read the headlines in the Guardian or the Daily Mail, they mirror US issues to a great extent, much more so than they do in Germany or France, for example. Definitely the CBC in Canada. It's natural as the cultures are aligned. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Austr...
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    > I think it has a lot to do with the multi party system. Is Australia really a multi-party country. Seems like Australia, much like Canada, has two major parties at the federal level who take turns governing the country, and a bunch of smaller ones who have no power and no chance of ever getting into power.
    - zizee 5y ago
      > smaller ones who have no power and no chance of ever getting into power. Whilst the smaller parties / independents do not have a real chance to gain majority, they can still have a voice and oftentimes hold the balance of power. This leads to some claiming that these smaller players have a much bigger influence than they deserve.
    - lugged 5y ago
      They don't need to get into power, the major parties still need to concede negotiation points in order to form coalitions. This is what gives the multi party system its power, coalition forces diversity.
      - kop34huyt 5y ago
        I agree. Fascinating to watch whats happening in Israeli politics too with all kind strange coalitions and so many parties.
    - roenxi 5y ago
      The smaller ones don't need power, they need the threat of gaining power. If the Greens have a policy that will get people to vote for them, then the Labor party has to pick that up as well or start haemorrhaging preferences. Ditto the Liberals and various lobbies like One Nation. It is extremely difficult for the major Australian parties to ignore a minor party that has better policies. Although the majors are stable as a brand, the actual policy mix and strategy is quite dynamic and influenced by the minors.
  - Talanes 5y ago
    >Kind of glad I don't have to put up with the same crap here or the media trying to call it peaceful. You've obviously picked up some opinions from the media about how protests on a completely different hemisphere than yourself were.
ne0flex 5y ago
It's definitely being brought into other countries one way or another. Back in university, I went to study abroad in Japan and there were several American professors at the university. The one's teaching arts courses such as English, Journalism, etc. would definitely sneak America's political rhetoric in their lessons. Now, I work for a Japanese company in the US and often go take business trips to Japan and can definitely see the American influence in the company's culture, namely because management is looking at what American companies are doing in order to be competitive on a world stage. One of my Japanese friends also noted to me that his peers who studied abroad in the US definitely brought back American style politics with them, and would view their Japanese school / work environment through an American lens, bringing up similar complaints to Americans, which Japanese who haven't studied abroad in the US, would think little of.
- 63 5y ago
  Would you be willing to go into more detail about what sorts of things your friend says that are American in nature? I'm interested for the sake of self awareness.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  This sounds like the “intellectual matrix” the French education minister wrote about recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threa... > French politicians, high-profile intellectuals and journalists are warning that progressive American ideas — specifically on race, gender, post-colonialism — are undermining their society. “There’s a battle to wage against an intellectual matrix from American universities,’’ warned Mr. Macron’s education minister. > Emboldened by these comments, prominent intellectuals have banded together against what they regard as contamination by the out-of-control woke leftism of American campuses and its attendant cancel culture.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    Wait, the American woke leftists are too far out for the French? (But it sounds like the problem isn't their position, but their actions or method.)
systemvoltage 5y ago
We're seeing some pushback both, politically as well as in the corporate/business world. Some companies are starting to detach from social justice issues and politics in general from taking over internal discussions. American society is recognizing the dangers of this and starting to swing the pendulum back to the center politically. More democrats that I know (atleast in SV) are aware of the compliance culture (see Wuhan virus lab origin issues where it was impossible to discuss this in 2020 without being silenced). Here in SV, many are bewildered about: https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-leftists-try-to-cancel-math-class-11621355858 https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-leftists-try-to-canc... I'd like to see America that takes a solemn look at social justice issues and provides appropriate remediation for them, but at the same time I don't want the entire media sphere taking over the discourse with their wokeness (see NASA's PR channel, Github master branch naming debacle, etc.). Twitter and Instagram are a cesspool of social justice issues without any nuanced and objective discussion. If this continues, 2024 elections are going to see a huge backlash. This is coming from a liberal who voted for the democratic party for all elections so far. Aside from political power, the thing that worries me the most is the Academia. Universities have become so deeply entrenched in issues that professors and academic professionals are afraid of speaking out, conducting research that could offend someone and constantly in fear of being cancelled, losing their jobs and reputation. This bothers me deeply. I am curious how this is viewed internationally, especially in Europe. Most countries in Europe were in lock-step with US during the BLM protests.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  > (see Wuhan virus lab origin issues where it was impossible to discuss this in 2020 without being silenced Funny The reason it cannot be discussed is because the us president decided to politicize the issue front and center. That inevitably forces the heavy hand censorship. Because any rational people see the danger of fueling the political crusade that was used purposefully by the most powerful individual on earth, at the crucial juncture when the unified national movement is critical to prevent large scale casualty. That's exactly the right use of silencing certain topics. As for what's happening now. I am all for root causing, as a person feeling positive to China's handling of covid 19. But boy, once the first bad guy started this political drama. No one can proceed objectively any more. China will resit all the steps for carrying out investigation in China. Not because they know something bad would be found. But because they are feared that someone is going to manufacture the evidence one way or another regardless any findings. In the old Chinese saying: one drop of rat dropping ruined the whole pot of porridge. (一颗老鼠屎坏了一锅粥)
smegma2 5y ago
There's a duplicate of this comment below, also by a new account: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27489313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27489313 Is this account real?
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
It wreaks havoc. But people may reap what they sow.

by sms737 5y ago

jollybean 5y ago

Oh, they are definitely willingly importing it. If there is ABC movement from a powerful country, then those in the external country will want to use that to further their agenda to the degree that it is aligned with their own. The CIA used to (and still does) try to push some kinds of narratives aboard, most prominently in the 'flower' revolutions in E. Europe, but much of the pop culture one's just happen 'organically'. Particularly in the Anglosphere.

lugged 5y ago
Maybe. In Australia the anti lockdown / anti Vax stuff got shut down quite quickly. Same goes for the BLM protests that tried it on without the right permits. Kind of glad I don't have to put up with the same crap here or the media trying to call it peaceful. I think it has a lot to do with the multi party system. I don't have to align myself with one party or the other party, and all its polarising crap along with it. If one party has too much polarising rhetoric I can just pick a more moderate party.
- jollybean 5y ago
  George Floyd protests in Australia [1] I'm not saying this is good or bad, but I'm saying all sorts of movements cross the US border in an organic manner. Edit: if you read the headlines in the Guardian or the Daily Mail, they mirror US issues to a great extent, much more so than they do in Germany or France, for example. Definitely the CBC in Canada. It's natural as the cultures are aligned. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Austr...
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  > I think it has a lot to do with the multi party system. Is Australia really a multi-party country. Seems like Australia, much like Canada, has two major parties at the federal level who take turns governing the country, and a bunch of smaller ones who have no power and no chance of ever getting into power.
  - zizee 5y ago
    > smaller ones who have no power and no chance of ever getting into power. Whilst the smaller parties / independents do not have a real chance to gain majority, they can still have a voice and oftentimes hold the balance of power. This leads to some claiming that these smaller players have a much bigger influence than they deserve.
  - lugged 5y ago
    They don't need to get into power, the major parties still need to concede negotiation points in order to form coalitions. This is what gives the multi party system its power, coalition forces diversity.
    - kop34huyt 5y ago
      I agree. Fascinating to watch whats happening in Israeli politics too with all kind strange coalitions and so many parties.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    The smaller ones don't need power, they need the threat of gaining power. If the Greens have a policy that will get people to vote for them, then the Labor party has to pick that up as well or start haemorrhaging preferences. Ditto the Liberals and various lobbies like One Nation. It is extremely difficult for the major Australian parties to ignore a minor party that has better policies. Although the majors are stable as a brand, the actual policy mix and strategy is quite dynamic and influenced by the minors.
- Talanes 5y ago
  >Kind of glad I don't have to put up with the same crap here or the media trying to call it peaceful. You've obviously picked up some opinions from the media about how protests on a completely different hemisphere than yourself were.

ne0flex 5y ago

It's definitely being brought into other countries one way or another. Back in university, I went to study abroad in Japan and there were several American professors at the university. The one's teaching arts courses such as English, Journalism, etc. would definitely sneak America's political rhetoric in their lessons. Now, I work for a Japanese company in the US and often go take business trips to Japan and can definitely see the American influence in the company's culture, namely because management is looking at what American companies are doing in order to be competitive on a world stage. One of my Japanese friends also noted to me that his peers who studied abroad in the US definitely brought back American style politics with them, and would view their Japanese school / work environment through an American lens, bringing up similar complaints to Americans, which Japanese who haven't studied abroad in the US, would think little of.

63 5y ago
Would you be willing to go into more detail about what sorts of things your friend says that are American in nature? I'm interested for the sake of self awareness.
throwawaysea 5y ago
This sounds like the “intellectual matrix” the French education minister wrote about recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threa... > French politicians, high-profile intellectuals and journalists are warning that progressive American ideas — specifically on race, gender, post-colonialism — are undermining their society. “There’s a battle to wage against an intellectual matrix from American universities,’’ warned Mr. Macron’s education minister. > Emboldened by these comments, prominent intellectuals have banded together against what they regard as contamination by the out-of-control woke leftism of American campuses and its attendant cancel culture.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Wait, the American woke leftists are too far out for the French? (But it sounds like the problem isn't their position, but their actions or method.)

systemvoltage 5y ago

We're seeing some pushback both, politically as well as in the corporate/business world. Some companies are starting to detach from social justice issues and politics in general from taking over internal discussions. American society is recognizing the dangers of this and starting to swing the pendulum back to the center politically. More democrats that I know (atleast in SV) are aware of the compliance culture (see Wuhan virus lab origin issues where it was impossible to discuss this in 2020 without being silenced). Here in SV, many are bewildered about: https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-leftists-try-to-cancel-math-class-11621355858 https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-leftists-try-to-canc... I'd like to see America that takes a solemn look at social justice issues and provides appropriate remediation for them, but at the same time I don't want the entire media sphere taking over the discourse with their wokeness (see NASA's PR channel, Github master branch naming debacle, etc.). Twitter and Instagram are a cesspool of social justice issues without any nuanced and objective discussion. If this continues, 2024 elections are going to see a huge backlash. This is coming from a liberal who voted for the democratic party for all elections so far. Aside from political power, the thing that worries me the most is the Academia. Universities have become so deeply entrenched in issues that professors and academic professionals are afraid of speaking out, conducting research that could offend someone and constantly in fear of being cancelled, losing their jobs and reputation. This bothers me deeply. I am curious how this is viewed internationally, especially in Europe. Most countries in Europe were in lock-step with US during the BLM protests.

justicezyx 5y ago
> (see Wuhan virus lab origin issues where it was impossible to discuss this in 2020 without being silenced Funny The reason it cannot be discussed is because the us president decided to politicize the issue front and center. That inevitably forces the heavy hand censorship. Because any rational people see the danger of fueling the political crusade that was used purposefully by the most powerful individual on earth, at the crucial juncture when the unified national movement is critical to prevent large scale casualty. That's exactly the right use of silencing certain topics. As for what's happening now. I am all for root causing, as a person feeling positive to China's handling of covid 19. But boy, once the first bad guy started this political drama. No one can proceed objectively any more. China will resit all the steps for carrying out investigation in China. Not because they know something bad would be found. But because they are feared that someone is going to manufacture the evidence one way or another regardless any findings. In the old Chinese saying: one drop of rat dropping ruined the whole pot of porridge. (一颗老鼠屎坏了一锅粥)

smegma2 5y ago

There's a duplicate of this comment below, also by a new account: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27489313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27489313 Is this account real?

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

It wreaks havoc. But people may reap what they sow.