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Suicide letters where he commanded people to commit suicide? [1] Tacitus says he killed his mother (who was pretty nasty in her own right). [2] Nero was pretty

Suicide letters where he commanded people to commit suicide? [1] Tacitus says he killed his mother (who was pretty nasty in her own right). [2] Nero was pretty nasty. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnaeus_Domitius_Corbulo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnaeus_Domitius_Corbulo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrippina_the_Younger#Death_and_aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrippina_the_Younger#Death_an...

ceejayoz 5y ago
Isn't the article's point that those might be made up, or at least exaggerated?
p_j_w 5y ago
All 3 of the accounts listed regarding Agrippina's death are subjects of the article in question and suspected of outright making things up. Your own link even puts forth the fact that all three accounts are unbelievable. I don't know the current consensus on all of that, but I know that the consensus is that most of the more outrageous things Suetonius had to say about the 12 Caesars was nonsense. I don't think it'd be all that surprising if Tacitus and Cassius Dio did similarly.
- CalChris 5y ago
  I haven’t read Dio but Tacitus struck me as quite sober. He didn’t mix in myth the way Livy did (Romulus and Remus in a history?).
  - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
    I haven't dug into it much, but isn't Tacitus also one of three sources about Caligula? Could it not be that a lot of the reputation of the Julio-Claudians was exaggerated well after nobody could or would defend them?
    - rkk3 5y ago
      Easy to underestimate the historians incentive to blame the previous regime & to paint their patrons ancestors in good light.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      The more fantastical Caligula stuff also generally isn't taken seriously these days.
  - p_j_w 5y ago
    The best propagandist makes it a little believable, right?
pmoriarty 5y ago
Seneca himself was ordered to commit suicide by Nero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Death
- chewz 5y ago
  But before Seneca had been tutor, mentor and acting prime minister for Nero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Imperial_advisor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Imperial_ad... BTW. Some scholars claim that Seneca's writing had been part of clever crafting of his public image and written by ghost writers (slaves most likely). Real Seneca had been rather ruthless investment banker and politician in mode of the times.
rsynnott 5y ago
> Tacitus says he killed his mother (who was pretty nasty in her own right). Mentioned in the article; this was a trope that Roman historians (who weren't historians in the modern sense) routinely used about people they didn't like, and the accounts are inconsistent. Like, it's certainly _possible_ he did, but there isn't great evidence for it.

ceejayoz 5y ago

Isn't the article's point that those might be made up, or at least exaggerated?

p_j_w 5y ago

All 3 of the accounts listed regarding Agrippina's death are subjects of the article in question and suspected of outright making things up. Your own link even puts forth the fact that all three accounts are unbelievable. I don't know the current consensus on all of that, but I know that the consensus is that most of the more outrageous things Suetonius had to say about the 12 Caesars was nonsense. I don't think it'd be all that surprising if Tacitus and Cassius Dio did similarly.

CalChris 5y ago
I haven’t read Dio but Tacitus struck me as quite sober. He didn’t mix in myth the way Livy did (Romulus and Remus in a history?).
- 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
  I haven't dug into it much, but isn't Tacitus also one of three sources about Caligula? Could it not be that a lot of the reputation of the Julio-Claudians was exaggerated well after nobody could or would defend them?
  - rkk3 5y ago
    Easy to underestimate the historians incentive to blame the previous regime & to paint their patrons ancestors in good light.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    The more fantastical Caligula stuff also generally isn't taken seriously these days.
- p_j_w 5y ago
  The best propagandist makes it a little believable, right?

pmoriarty 5y ago

Seneca himself was ordered to commit suicide by Nero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Death

chewz 5y ago
But before Seneca had been tutor, mentor and acting prime minister for Nero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Imperial_advisor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_the_Younger#Imperial_ad... BTW. Some scholars claim that Seneca's writing had been part of clever crafting of his public image and written by ghost writers (slaves most likely). Real Seneca had been rather ruthless investment banker and politician in mode of the times.

rsynnott 5y ago

> Tacitus says he killed his mother (who was pretty nasty in her own right). Mentioned in the article; this was a trope that Roman historians (who weren't historians in the modern sense) routinely used about people they didn't like, and the accounts are inconsistent. Like, it's certainly _possible_ he did, but there isn't great evidence for it.