4 ms·

A recent podcast episode I watched had a doctor who said something that stuck with me: "when it comes to sleep, it's about the quality, not the quantity". A sma

A recent podcast episode I watched had a doctor who said something that stuck with me: "when it comes to sleep, it's about the quality, not the quantity". A small amount of high-quality sleep gives you more actual rest than a large amount of lesser-quality sleep, they said. Not sure how true it is, but it seems to line up with my life. I'm also a long sleeper who's still often lethargic during the day. But I find that some (legal) inhibitory substances can bring me into what feels like a much more restful sleep, and I wake up feeling very refreshed and energetic for the whole day. My eyelids feel less heavy, I feel like a fog is lifted, and I just feel better in every way. I suspect my average sleep quality just isn't very good.

markus_zhang 5y ago
Me neither. I rarely had any good sleep that left me with a refreshed mind. Early morning is usually my worst time.
fighterpilot 5y ago
I am very interested to read about the evidence behind this. Do you remember the doctor's or podcast's name?
- meowface 5y ago
  https://youtu.be/jhKZIq3SlYE?t=4436 https://youtu.be/jhKZIq3SlYE?t=4436 Can't speak to the veracity of it, and might've paraphrased or misremembered a bit, but it definitely stayed with me.
55555 5y ago
> some (legal) inhibitory substances Which substances?
- smokelegend 5y ago
  THC-A
- meowface 5y ago
  Phenibut. (Not recommended to be taken on a daily/frequent basis. It's a GABA analogue.)
  - dannyw 5y ago
    So it's basically a research chemical benzo. My advice to everyone is to stick to things like melatonin, pavlov conditioning like drinking camomile tea, and maybe some some weed. The EV of playing with benzos and other addictive substances is negative.
    - meowface 5y ago
      I think it's past the research chemical stage, but, yes, it's somewhat similar to benzodiazepines and I strongly recommend people not take it or any other GABAergic often. I'd very strongly recommend people not try to take phenibut to improve sleep. This is why I was merely giving an anecdote of what it feels like when I'm very well-rested rather than suggesting a solution, and why I didn't want to name the substance in my anecdote. I'm still struggling with sleep quality. If I could just take a lot of phenibut all the time, I wouldn't have an issue, but I know I really shouldn't take it often, so I don't. (In part because I know I'd have an issue again once tolerance builds, in addition to some new issues.) (Personally, weed makes it much, much harder for me to sleep.) You should be careful with how you use melatonin, too, though: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th..., https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/12/did-a-melatonin-patent-inspire-current-dose-confusion/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/12/did-a-melatonin-patent...
      - smokelegend 5y ago
        Perhaps you're not giving 'weed' the credit it deserves. [IMHO]I'm so sick of people who purposely down play the medical and therapeutic effects of cannabis. That's what it should be referred to, since in this country [US] 'weed' is a generic term that generally has been used to describe anything bad, unwanted or something not worth keeping. Which is completely different when we talk about medical grade high THC cannabis[in the US]. Stop thinking 'weed' is the same as taking a manufactured pharmaceutical pill. It's not, I don't have to site any references or link any sites to know the difference. If you feel differently, perhaps you'd be better off googling the differences to discover what millions of people have known for hundreds if not thousands if years. CANNABIS is a healing plant, full stop. We can debate all day long about what plant may be better for this or that, but you're never going to convince me that 'weed' is not as effective for pain as a manufactured pharmaceutical pill. Take care of your life, do as you see fit, I think there is a right strain and dosage for everyone to enjoy the benefits of cannabis. Not all pharmaceutical drugs are bad, true, not all alcohol is bad, but if you take enough of it, it'll kill you.
CalRobert 5y ago
Weirdly, I tried ear plugs for sleeping a while back and I woke up feeling like a new person. It was amazing. Only stopped when I had kids. For anyone else reading maybe try earplugs. Blackout blinds helped too.
raducu 5y ago
Melatonin, benzos induce sleep but do not improve sleep quality for me. Less stress, feeling content + antihistamines or alpha blockers (especially trazodone which has both) do induce much longer deep sleep and feeling refreshed and indeed total sleep duration has nothing to do with sleep quality.
- meowface 5y ago
  Unfortunately, I believe antihistamines and alpha blockers are both associated with long-term negative health effects if used frequently. Very likely not as bad as daily benzo use, and melatonin is probably safest, but I believe it's not healthy to take any of those four on a regular basis. It's tough to get a free lunch in the sleep department.
  - raducu 5y ago
    I know about the anti-colinergic scale and that first generation antihistamines are bad, but I use third generation antihistamines(levoceterizine), and I use sporadically. But alpha blockers? I mean I don't use those anymore because trazobone and clonodine is antihipertensive and I don't want to mess with that, but I had no idea alpha blockers were bad for the brain.
    - meowface 5y ago
      I'm actually not sure about alpha blockers. I don't know if they're necessarily associated with long-term brain issues like anti-cholinergics are. According to Google, some alpha blockers may be associated with other long-term issues, though.

markus_zhang 5y ago

Me neither. I rarely had any good sleep that left me with a refreshed mind. Early morning is usually my worst time.

fighterpilot 5y ago

I am very interested to read about the evidence behind this. Do you remember the doctor's or podcast's name?

meowface 5y ago
https://youtu.be/jhKZIq3SlYE?t=4436 https://youtu.be/jhKZIq3SlYE?t=4436 Can't speak to the veracity of it, and might've paraphrased or misremembered a bit, but it definitely stayed with me.

55555 5y ago

> some (legal) inhibitory substances Which substances?

smokelegend 5y ago
THC-A
meowface 5y ago
Phenibut. (Not recommended to be taken on a daily/frequent basis. It's a GABA analogue.)
- dannyw 5y ago
  So it's basically a research chemical benzo. My advice to everyone is to stick to things like melatonin, pavlov conditioning like drinking camomile tea, and maybe some some weed. The EV of playing with benzos and other addictive substances is negative.
  - meowface 5y ago
    I think it's past the research chemical stage, but, yes, it's somewhat similar to benzodiazepines and I strongly recommend people not take it or any other GABAergic often. I'd very strongly recommend people not try to take phenibut to improve sleep. This is why I was merely giving an anecdote of what it feels like when I'm very well-rested rather than suggesting a solution, and why I didn't want to name the substance in my anecdote. I'm still struggling with sleep quality. If I could just take a lot of phenibut all the time, I wouldn't have an issue, but I know I really shouldn't take it often, so I don't. (In part because I know I'd have an issue again once tolerance builds, in addition to some new issues.) (Personally, weed makes it much, much harder for me to sleep.) You should be careful with how you use melatonin, too, though: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th..., https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/12/did-a-melatonin-patent-inspire-current-dose-confusion/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/12/did-a-melatonin-patent...
    - smokelegend 5y ago
      Perhaps you're not giving 'weed' the credit it deserves. [IMHO]I'm so sick of people who purposely down play the medical and therapeutic effects of cannabis. That's what it should be referred to, since in this country [US] 'weed' is a generic term that generally has been used to describe anything bad, unwanted or something not worth keeping. Which is completely different when we talk about medical grade high THC cannabis[in the US]. Stop thinking 'weed' is the same as taking a manufactured pharmaceutical pill. It's not, I don't have to site any references or link any sites to know the difference. If you feel differently, perhaps you'd be better off googling the differences to discover what millions of people have known for hundreds if not thousands if years. CANNABIS is a healing plant, full stop. We can debate all day long about what plant may be better for this or that, but you're never going to convince me that 'weed' is not as effective for pain as a manufactured pharmaceutical pill. Take care of your life, do as you see fit, I think there is a right strain and dosage for everyone to enjoy the benefits of cannabis. Not all pharmaceutical drugs are bad, true, not all alcohol is bad, but if you take enough of it, it'll kill you.

CalRobert 5y ago

Weirdly, I tried ear plugs for sleeping a while back and I woke up feeling like a new person. It was amazing. Only stopped when I had kids. For anyone else reading maybe try earplugs. Blackout blinds helped too.

raducu 5y ago

Melatonin, benzos induce sleep but do not improve sleep quality for me. Less stress, feeling content + antihistamines or alpha blockers (especially trazodone which has both) do induce much longer deep sleep and feeling refreshed and indeed total sleep duration has nothing to do with sleep quality.

meowface 5y ago
Unfortunately, I believe antihistamines and alpha blockers are both associated with long-term negative health effects if used frequently. Very likely not as bad as daily benzo use, and melatonin is probably safest, but I believe it's not healthy to take any of those four on a regular basis. It's tough to get a free lunch in the sleep department.
- raducu 5y ago
  I know about the anti-colinergic scale and that first generation antihistamines are bad, but I use third generation antihistamines(levoceterizine), and I use sporadically. But alpha blockers? I mean I don't use those anymore because trazobone and clonodine is antihipertensive and I don't want to mess with that, but I had no idea alpha blockers were bad for the brain.
  - meowface 5y ago
    I'm actually not sure about alpha blockers. I don't know if they're necessarily associated with long-term brain issues like anti-cholinergics are. According to Google, some alpha blockers may be associated with other long-term issues, though.