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They also don't pay the same taxes as small businesses. The market is completely rigged. Apple should be split and fined.

astrange 5y ago
Apple is the largest taxpayer in the US. (and incorporated in California instead of Delaware, which presumably means higher fees)
- ttty2 5y ago
  2020: sales 247b, gross profit 109b, tax 9b. Based on their official numbers: 8.25% tax But... That tax is total tax with a bunch of stuff that might be delayed, so I'd say it's not really 9b in real terms.. But even so... That gross profit of 109b, is shady. I'm sure they put a lot of IP costs and crap like that to lower that number. Considering all this, I'd say to the real tax they pay is less than 5%. Source: https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/AAPL/financials/annual/income-statement https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/AAPL/financials/annua...
- vel0city 5y ago
  Apple is incorporated in CA, they're incorporated in DE, they're incorporated in Ireland, they've got corporations all over the place. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_v_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_v_Commission
  - astrange 5y ago
    Rather weak tax evasion argument when Ireland doesn’t want the taxes and the shell company employs 10ks of people and runs a factory.
    - vel0city 5y ago
      > incorporated in California instead of Delaware This was my main point. They're incorporated in Delaware as well as incorporated in California. That way, they can look all hoity toity when it comes to paying their CA taxes while still enjoying the DE tax status many other corporations enjoy. On top of that, their tax attorneys also are some of the best at using the Double Irish method for avoiding global taxes. Pointing to Apple as an example as a company that pays their share of taxes is missing the forest for the trees. Sure they pay a lot in taxes in CA (they're a MASSIVE employer in CA, they do a ton in sales, they own a lot of property, etc.) they're also pretty much doing as much as they possibly can to avoid paying taxes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to apply a moral stance to this either way in this comment. Its just disengenious to try and paint them as a company that willingly pays their CA taxes while they're also the leading example of the Double Irish tax structure.
- intricatedetail 5y ago
  Larger != pays the same tax in terms of %.
simondotau 5y ago
If the market is rigged, blame the market. I don’t like many of the accounting tricks Apple pulls either, but as long as Apple’s competitors are pulling the same tricks, singling out Apple doesn’t solve the problem. Yes Apple are a huge company, but they are utterly minuscule relative to the overall economy.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  I'm not sure if Apple are utterly miniscule + they only have to lobby for a very select few.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    Apple is, I think, the biggest company in the world. But they’re still minuscule compared to the market as a whole.

astrange 5y ago

Apple is the largest taxpayer in the US. (and incorporated in California instead of Delaware, which presumably means higher fees)

ttty2 5y ago
2020: sales 247b, gross profit 109b, tax 9b. Based on their official numbers: 8.25% tax But... That tax is total tax with a bunch of stuff that might be delayed, so I'd say it's not really 9b in real terms.. But even so... That gross profit of 109b, is shady. I'm sure they put a lot of IP costs and crap like that to lower that number. Considering all this, I'd say to the real tax they pay is less than 5%. Source: https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/AAPL/financials/annual/income-statement https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/AAPL/financials/annua...
vel0city 5y ago
Apple is incorporated in CA, they're incorporated in DE, they're incorporated in Ireland, they've got corporations all over the place. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_v_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_v_Commission
- astrange 5y ago
  Rather weak tax evasion argument when Ireland doesn’t want the taxes and the shell company employs 10ks of people and runs a factory.
  - vel0city 5y ago
    > incorporated in California instead of Delaware This was my main point. They're incorporated in Delaware as well as incorporated in California. That way, they can look all hoity toity when it comes to paying their CA taxes while still enjoying the DE tax status many other corporations enjoy. On top of that, their tax attorneys also are some of the best at using the Double Irish method for avoiding global taxes. Pointing to Apple as an example as a company that pays their share of taxes is missing the forest for the trees. Sure they pay a lot in taxes in CA (they're a MASSIVE employer in CA, they do a ton in sales, they own a lot of property, etc.) they're also pretty much doing as much as they possibly can to avoid paying taxes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to apply a moral stance to this either way in this comment. Its just disengenious to try and paint them as a company that willingly pays their CA taxes while they're also the leading example of the Double Irish tax structure.
intricatedetail 5y ago
Larger != pays the same tax in terms of %.

simondotau 5y ago

If the market is rigged, blame the market. I don’t like many of the accounting tricks Apple pulls either, but as long as Apple’s competitors are pulling the same tricks, singling out Apple doesn’t solve the problem. Yes Apple are a huge company, but they are utterly minuscule relative to the overall economy.

mhh__ 5y ago
I'm not sure if Apple are utterly miniscule + they only have to lobby for a very select few.
- simondotau 5y ago
  Apple is, I think, the biggest company in the world. But they’re still minuscule compared to the market as a whole.