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> I see zero benefit to going through the final steps after they determined that their suspect had already died If the victim has living friends & family, it p

> I see zero benefit to going through the final steps after they determined that their suspect had already died If the victim has living friends & family, it provides closure. Additionally, solving cases, however old, boosts public confidence that crimes will not go unpunished, which in turn acts as a deterrent for future crime.

moron4hire 5y ago
The threat of punishment has never been shown to be a deterrent to crime. EDIT: I would have thought this was a well-known issue by now, but for those who are disagreeing, "punishments do not deter crime" is also the opinion of the National Institute of Justice: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterr...
- rightbyte 5y ago
  Do more drivers turn right at red lights in the US than in say UK were it is illegal?
  - moron4hire 5y ago
    The legality of the action is not the only difference between those two locales. A right turn on red is significantly more dangerous in the UK than in the US.
    - rightbyte 5y ago
      Oh ... ye well lets pretend I wrote "turn left at red lights in UK" shall we?
- krrrh 5y ago
  I think you’re getting downvotes for the statement “never been shown”. It’s an overly broad claim, and even the link you posted talks more about the severity of punishment being a weaker deterrent than the certainty of being caught (and punished). There’s still no doubt that if theft was suddenly not punished at all then there would be more theft. From other reading I’ve done the consistency of punishment is more important, and it’s better for criminal justice systems to provide a certain small punishment than an inconsistent outsized punishment, and this has a lot to do with the way humans evaluate risks, and improved paths towards helping criminals becoming non-criminals. Anyway, I learned a bit from the link you posted, mostly that this sort of thinking is mainstream enough to be presented like this by the DoJ. So have my upvote.
  - syshum 5y ago
    No statements like that are down-voted because it challenges the generally accepted narrative of criminal justice, never under estimate the normalcy and confirmation bias People HAVE TO believe that the prison system is a deterrent because if not then the unethical actions, and inhumane treatment of criminals, specifically in the US Prison system, can no longer be justified in their minds. Thus they simply can not allow themselves to believe anything other than the propaganda they have been feed all of their lives that we need to put humans in a small cage "for the greater good" even if all they did was grow a plant unapproved by the government
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-francisco-shoplifting-walgreens-closing-b1852470.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-franci... Seems to be a direct counter example. Punishments for shoplifting was effectively made nonexistent and then organized crime rings sprung up to begin shoplifting.
  - syshum 5y ago
    The problem with that is the government has no only removed prison as a punishment, but also removed all possible punishment as they have refused any accountability at all and disallows the use of force to defend property. That is far far far different than what the OP is talking about
    - ummonk 5y ago
      The comment by the appropriately named “moron4hire” said the threat of punishment doesn’t work, not “prison isn’t the best form of punishment”.
- kortilla 5y ago
  The very first statement in that link directly contradicts what you said. It says: > The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment. The “certainty of being caught” is the threat of punishment. You’ve gotten it confused with the severity of punishment.
  - moron4hire 5y ago
    The line you quoted clearly makes a distinction between getting caught and being punished. Punishments are not the only possible response to someone having committed and being convicted of a crime. A heroin user could be put in prison or sent to a rehab program. One is a punishment, the other is not. The action taken being against what the recipient wants to do with their time is not what defines a punishment. Punishments are correctional actions that rely on the power of violence deprive the recipient of something: money, freedom, comfort, life. Rehabilitation is a correctional action that relies on reason and education for the recipient.
kaminar 5y ago
Yep, it's egregiously irresponsible of them to do that. Like being smug happy about correcting sometimes grammar. F them.
throwawayboise 5y ago
How do you punish a dead man?
- Someone 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_execution (with several historical examples, among which https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod: “the ecclesiastical trial of Pope Formosus, who had been dead for about seven months, in the Basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome during January 897. The trial was conducted by Pope Stephen VI, the successor to Formosus' successor, Pope Boniface VI. Stephen had Formosus' corpse exhumed and brought to the papal court for judgment”. I guess the judgment was “this case stinks”))
  - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
    That's a performance which doesn't actually punish the dead person because the dead person is...well...dead.
sebastien_b 5y ago
> Additionally, solving cases, however old, boosts public confidence that crimes will not go unpunished But in this particular case, the family of the suspect was really the only one to get “punishment”, not the actual suspect (which now had no way of defense as others have pointed out).

moron4hire 5y ago

The threat of punishment has never been shown to be a deterrent to crime. EDIT: I would have thought this was a well-known issue by now, but for those who are disagreeing, "punishments do not deter crime" is also the opinion of the National Institute of Justice: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterr...

rightbyte 5y ago
Do more drivers turn right at red lights in the US than in say UK were it is illegal?
- moron4hire 5y ago
  The legality of the action is not the only difference between those two locales. A right turn on red is significantly more dangerous in the UK than in the US.
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    Oh ... ye well lets pretend I wrote "turn left at red lights in UK" shall we?
krrrh 5y ago
I think you’re getting downvotes for the statement “never been shown”. It’s an overly broad claim, and even the link you posted talks more about the severity of punishment being a weaker deterrent than the certainty of being caught (and punished). There’s still no doubt that if theft was suddenly not punished at all then there would be more theft. From other reading I’ve done the consistency of punishment is more important, and it’s better for criminal justice systems to provide a certain small punishment than an inconsistent outsized punishment, and this has a lot to do with the way humans evaluate risks, and improved paths towards helping criminals becoming non-criminals. Anyway, I learned a bit from the link you posted, mostly that this sort of thinking is mainstream enough to be presented like this by the DoJ. So have my upvote.
- syshum 5y ago
  No statements like that are down-voted because it challenges the generally accepted narrative of criminal justice, never under estimate the normalcy and confirmation bias People HAVE TO believe that the prison system is a deterrent because if not then the unethical actions, and inhumane treatment of criminals, specifically in the US Prison system, can no longer be justified in their minds. Thus they simply can not allow themselves to believe anything other than the propaganda they have been feed all of their lives that we need to put humans in a small cage "for the greater good" even if all they did was grow a plant unapproved by the government
thatguy0900 5y ago
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-francisco-shoplifting-walgreens-closing-b1852470.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-franci... Seems to be a direct counter example. Punishments for shoplifting was effectively made nonexistent and then organized crime rings sprung up to begin shoplifting.
- syshum 5y ago
  The problem with that is the government has no only removed prison as a punishment, but also removed all possible punishment as they have refused any accountability at all and disallows the use of force to defend property. That is far far far different than what the OP is talking about
  - ummonk 5y ago
    The comment by the appropriately named “moron4hire” said the threat of punishment doesn’t work, not “prison isn’t the best form of punishment”.
kortilla 5y ago
The very first statement in that link directly contradicts what you said. It says: > The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment. The “certainty of being caught” is the threat of punishment. You’ve gotten it confused with the severity of punishment.
- moron4hire 5y ago
  The line you quoted clearly makes a distinction between getting caught and being punished. Punishments are not the only possible response to someone having committed and being convicted of a crime. A heroin user could be put in prison or sent to a rehab program. One is a punishment, the other is not. The action taken being against what the recipient wants to do with their time is not what defines a punishment. Punishments are correctional actions that rely on the power of violence deprive the recipient of something: money, freedom, comfort, life. Rehabilitation is a correctional action that relies on reason and education for the recipient.

kaminar 5y ago

Yep, it's egregiously irresponsible of them to do that. Like being smug happy about correcting sometimes grammar. F them.

throwawayboise 5y ago

How do you punish a dead man?

Someone 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_execution (with several historical examples, among which https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod: “the ecclesiastical trial of Pope Formosus, who had been dead for about seven months, in the Basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome during January 897. The trial was conducted by Pope Stephen VI, the successor to Formosus' successor, Pope Boniface VI. Stephen had Formosus' corpse exhumed and brought to the papal court for judgment”. I guess the judgment was “this case stinks”))
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  That's a performance which doesn't actually punish the dead person because the dead person is...well...dead.

sebastien_b 5y ago

> Additionally, solving cases, however old, boosts public confidence that crimes will not go unpunished But in this particular case, the family of the suspect was really the only one to get “punishment”, not the actual suspect (which now had no way of defense as others have pointed out).