3 ms·

"Under the new rules, Fairfax will first identify all eighth-graders who meet certain academic criteria: those who achieve an unweighted GPA of at least 3.5 whi

"Under the new rules, Fairfax will first identify all eighth-graders who meet certain academic criteria: those who achieve an unweighted GPA of at least 3.5 while taking Algebra I or a higher-level math class, in addition to math and science honors courses and either an English or social studies honors course." "In a bid to ensure geographical diversity, a certain number of seats will be allotted to every middle school in Fairfax County, to be filled by eighth-graders at that school who meet criteria." Doesn't seem very meritocratic to me. Doing a lottery among everyone with a 3.5 is basically saying select every student that isn't failing. High school GPAs are highly inflated to the point that most people who would be competitive in the current application system have above a 3.9. The geographical diversity quota is de facto a race quota due to redlining and cultural enclaves. I don't know how you can possibly argue that accepting students from all over the district objectively through merit is worse than a geographic quota per middle school. And what happens when you diversity admit these students who, by the admissions test, are not as competitive? The vast array of clubs and other high school competitions become dominated by the most competitive students, i.e. they're going to look like what TJ looks like now: 70% Asian according to the article. In effect you're tossing unprepared students into the deep end to get screwed for the college application process because they have 0 chance at securing any sort of extracurricular activity for themselves. The real kicker here is that by the article's quoted data, 70% of the school is Asian. If you really wanted racial diversity in line with the population you'd also be pushing for increased white representation along the lines of a 150% increase in # of white students admitted. But that's not what these activists are talking about, which is how you know their ideas are just politically motivated garbage.

UncleMeat 5y ago
The existing system also isn't meritocratic. I attended TJ. I remember the test prep and the BS extracurriculars to pad resumes. I am not convinced that a student who has a 3.5 and has taken accelerated courses is unprepared to attend. Extracurriculars at TJ (at least many years ago) were also tremendously diverse. Sure, somebody who has only taken Algebra 1 in 8th grade is less likely to end up with the top scores in the math olympiads out of the whole school (though who knows, loads of students didn't attend a school that offered algebra 1 in 7th grade so maybe they were brilliant and didn't have the option), but when I attended I did stuff like play bridge, watch rock concert footage, or rehearse a play during 8th period. This does not feel like a meaningful concern. Are you a TJ grad?
- b9a2cab5 5y ago
  I am not, but I went to a public high school with a similar atmosphere as what I hear TJ is like. At least at my school, if you decided to do a lottery for students from across the city and set 3.5 as a threshold for lottery entrance, the competitiveness of my school in national competitions would have suffered severely. Anecdotally, the people I knew with 3.5-3.6 middle school GPAs were just uncompetitive when doing team tryouts and olympiads and also got lower grades in AP courses compared to straight A students. When college admissions came around they made it into much less prestigious and less competitive schools compared to the straight A students. Anyone can play bridge or watch a rock concert. Not everyone can make the AIME and do math at a college sophomore level when they're a HS freshman. Schools like TJ and my high school should cater to the latter, not the former. The entire point of these schools is to _reward achivement above and beyond the norm_. Yeah, a student with a 3.5 can probably make it through TJ or any other competitive high school's courseload, but the point of these schools is that you put all the best of the best in the same place and network effects happen and push them to even higher levels of achievement _outside the classroom_. By admitting less competitive students (even if the application process isn't perfect) you prevent those levels of achievement from even happening at all.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    All I can do is share my experience. I do find it weird how many people who have never interacted with TJ have developed incredibly strong opinions about it (so much so that several of my friends regularly receive hate mail from strangers who don't live in virginia). > the point of these schools is that you put all the best of the best in the same place and network effects happen and push them to even higher levels of achievement _outside the classroom_. This is the difference between you and me. I don't believe that the existing system admits the most meritorious students. Tons of people insist that I hate education and that I want to sabotage the most qualified students. But I don't believe that the test, with its entire cottage industry of prep (my parents were told that they should prepare for TJ when I was five), actually admits a more capable group of students than alternatives. The reason I believe this is that I've seen this happen in earlier education. I went to an accelerated program starting in 3rd grade. It was wildly inequitable. After noticing that there were some schools that literally never sent a student to the accelerated system, my parents looked into it and discovered that the process was clearly not evaluating merit but instead admitting people who understood how to navigate the application structure. Relatively small changes in the process rapidly made things much more balanced geographically and the changes have stuck. Students who enrolled in the accelerated program from the previously absent schools did not fail. I also think that the culture of prep damages people. A ton of my friends who are TJ alumni now share stories (well over a decade later) of how TJ was the most toxic learning ecosystem they have ever been in. These are people who are now faculty members at top universities, founders of successful startups, and more. The bulk of my friends from high school believe that they should have focused less on competitive schooling and spent more time on other things. Replacing bridge and drama with math competitions causes more harm, in my opinion. TJ is also not the only place to get an accelerated education in northern virginia. If a student wants to partial differential equations in high school, most high schools in the area have attachments with George Mason, which enables access to these curricula. In fact, TJ does not offer those courses to high school freshmen, so the students at TJ that want to do what you say are stuck going to Mason anyway. I also think that there are some extremely qualified students who'd be much better served by the IB programs offered at nearby schools. AP is just truly awful, in my opinion. You take smart kids and crush them into rigid curricula rather than letting them explore. All of us got deficient humanities educations at TJ.

UncleMeat 5y ago

The existing system also isn't meritocratic. I attended TJ. I remember the test prep and the BS extracurriculars to pad resumes. I am not convinced that a student who has a 3.5 and has taken accelerated courses is unprepared to attend. Extracurriculars at TJ (at least many years ago) were also tremendously diverse. Sure, somebody who has only taken Algebra 1 in 8th grade is less likely to end up with the top scores in the math olympiads out of the whole school (though who knows, loads of students didn't attend a school that offered algebra 1 in 7th grade so maybe they were brilliant and didn't have the option), but when I attended I did stuff like play bridge, watch rock concert footage, or rehearse a play during 8th period. This does not feel like a meaningful concern. Are you a TJ grad?

b9a2cab5 5y ago
I am not, but I went to a public high school with a similar atmosphere as what I hear TJ is like. At least at my school, if you decided to do a lottery for students from across the city and set 3.5 as a threshold for lottery entrance, the competitiveness of my school in national competitions would have suffered severely. Anecdotally, the people I knew with 3.5-3.6 middle school GPAs were just uncompetitive when doing team tryouts and olympiads and also got lower grades in AP courses compared to straight A students. When college admissions came around they made it into much less prestigious and less competitive schools compared to the straight A students. Anyone can play bridge or watch a rock concert. Not everyone can make the AIME and do math at a college sophomore level when they're a HS freshman. Schools like TJ and my high school should cater to the latter, not the former. The entire point of these schools is to _reward achivement above and beyond the norm_. Yeah, a student with a 3.5 can probably make it through TJ or any other competitive high school's courseload, but the point of these schools is that you put all the best of the best in the same place and network effects happen and push them to even higher levels of achievement _outside the classroom_. By admitting less competitive students (even if the application process isn't perfect) you prevent those levels of achievement from even happening at all.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  All I can do is share my experience. I do find it weird how many people who have never interacted with TJ have developed incredibly strong opinions about it (so much so that several of my friends regularly receive hate mail from strangers who don't live in virginia). > the point of these schools is that you put all the best of the best in the same place and network effects happen and push them to even higher levels of achievement _outside the classroom_. This is the difference between you and me. I don't believe that the existing system admits the most meritorious students. Tons of people insist that I hate education and that I want to sabotage the most qualified students. But I don't believe that the test, with its entire cottage industry of prep (my parents were told that they should prepare for TJ when I was five), actually admits a more capable group of students than alternatives. The reason I believe this is that I've seen this happen in earlier education. I went to an accelerated program starting in 3rd grade. It was wildly inequitable. After noticing that there were some schools that literally never sent a student to the accelerated system, my parents looked into it and discovered that the process was clearly not evaluating merit but instead admitting people who understood how to navigate the application structure. Relatively small changes in the process rapidly made things much more balanced geographically and the changes have stuck. Students who enrolled in the accelerated program from the previously absent schools did not fail. I also think that the culture of prep damages people. A ton of my friends who are TJ alumni now share stories (well over a decade later) of how TJ was the most toxic learning ecosystem they have ever been in. These are people who are now faculty members at top universities, founders of successful startups, and more. The bulk of my friends from high school believe that they should have focused less on competitive schooling and spent more time on other things. Replacing bridge and drama with math competitions causes more harm, in my opinion. TJ is also not the only place to get an accelerated education in northern virginia. If a student wants to partial differential equations in high school, most high schools in the area have attachments with George Mason, which enables access to these curricula. In fact, TJ does not offer those courses to high school freshmen, so the students at TJ that want to do what you say are stuck going to Mason anyway. I also think that there are some extremely qualified students who'd be much better served by the IB programs offered at nearby schools. AP is just truly awful, in my opinion. You take smart kids and crush them into rigid curricula rather than letting them explore. All of us got deficient humanities educations at TJ.