> life has innate value especially since we're the only intelligent species we know of, even if they aren't valuable in a capitalistic sense I personally agree

> life has innate value especially since we're the only intelligent species we know of, even if they aren't valuable in a capitalistic sense I personally agree with you in general, but I'm talking about a self-image formed through extensive socialization to the idea that work == value. Even if in some abstract sense all intelligent life is a gift, the "waste of oxygen" label starts feeling appropriate as your cohort materially advances without you. I guess I was unclear in that I wasn't going for lifestyle judgmentalism; more trying to explain the negative self-image that's easily developed given capitalist socialization and a lack of capitalist success. > It can be uncomfortable, sure, but if you can get past that... Again, I agree in general, and there's obviously a spectrum of how impacted any particular individual is going to be, but I think you're underestimating the degree of psychological scarring that can be built up over a long time in the pit. That step of admitting that you're the problem is one many fight against for years, which happens to be linked to self-deception around how fun/fulfilling the consumption-only life is. I guess I'm glad that you've got as hopeful of an outlook on this as you do, but I want to temper that a little with the understanding that "well, just go get a job lol" is akin to "well, just stop being sad lol" - in both cases there's probably a lot going on that simple willpower alone isn't going to fix.