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Bread in Russian means хлеб (khleb), and in Bulgarian хляб (khlyab). IMHO not so different from Old English hlaf. In Norwegian we use the word loff for white an

by kebman 5y ago

Bread in Russian means хлеб (khleb), and in Bulgarian хляб (khlyab). IMHO not so different from Old English hlaf. In Norwegian we use the word loff for white and soft bread, and as far as I know Brits call it a loaf of bread. But everyday bread is just brød in Norwegian, which is of course very similar to the English word bread. Interestingly I know Life of Boris likes his бутерброд (buterbrod), which is basically a buttered slice of bread, or—you know—a sandwhich. Another interesting use for grains is the making of beer, which is also an extremely interesting word, etymologically speaking.

mdturnerphys 5y ago
Yes, the Slavic "хлеб", etc., appear to be cognates with the Germanic "loaf", etc. Wiktionary [0] says they both come from Proto-Germanic "hlaibaz" (reconstructed [1]). [0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loaf#Etymology_1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loaf#Etymology_1 [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Reconstructed_terms https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Reconstructed_term...
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > Proto-Germanic "hlaibaz" Still there in modern German for "loaf": "Laib".
throwaway894345 5y ago
If you like grain and etymology, you might like the etymology of “barn”: > barn (n.): "covered building for the storage of farm produce," Old English bereærn "barn," literally "barley house," from bere "barley" (see barley) + aern "house," metathesized from rann, rasn (source also of Old Norse rann "large house," Gothic razn "house," Old English rest "resting place"). For the formation, compare Old English sealtærn "saltworks," horsern "stable." In Anglo-Saxon England, barley was a primary grain crop. Barley was not always the only crop grown as the data recovered at Bishopstone might suggest but it is always the most commonly represented, followed by wheat and then rye and oats. [C.J. Arnold, "An Archaeology of the Early Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms," 1988, p.36] > Another word for "barn" in Old English was beretun, "barley enclosure" (from tun "enclosure, house"), which accounts for the many Barton place names on the English map, and the common surname. Applied from early 18c. to any large, barn-like building. Barn door has been used figuratively for "broad target" since 1670s and "great size" since 1540s. Barn-owl attested by 1670s. Barn-raising "a collective effort by neighbors or community members to erect the frame of a barn for one of them, accompanied by a social gathering" is attested by 1849. https://www.etymonline.com/word/barn https://www.etymonline.com/word/barn You might also like The History of English Podcast; I highly recommend it: https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/ https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/
- Tagbert 5y ago
  I second the recommendation of the History of English. It is a fascinating podcast.
- progre 5y ago
  And "tun" (enclosure, in Swedish the word means the space between farmhouses on a farm) is the root of the english word "town".
  - kebman 5y ago
    The Scandinavian usage of tun is akin to a courtyard, or the open space between a (small and fenced in) collection of houses. Again a courtyard can be traced to Middle Lower German hof, and even onwards to Proto-Germanic hufą, which is cognate with the Scandinavian word for head. And indeed if you want to say "the main part" in Danish or Norwegian you'd say hoveddelen. Hoff additionally means a royal court in Norwegian. On the other hand, the easiest cognate of this word in English is probably that of a horse hoof, which makes sense because such a tun is usually a stamped hard by both humans and their cattle.
- gerdesj 5y ago
  In Plymouth (Devon, not MA) there is a region called Barne Barton!
Derek_Mudaxe 5y ago
A slice of bread with butter is not a sandwich, it's just bread and butter or buttered bread. Sandwich is a placename, sandy vik, the food item is named after an earl/eoarl/yarl/jarl (take your pick).
- Nux 5y ago
  In other words "sandwich" is an eponym.
  - Derek_Mudaxe 5y ago
    Sometimes yes, sometimes no, it depends on the context.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kebman 5y ago
  Just slap the колбаса on the bread instead of your face, and there's your sandwich!
beebeepka 5y ago
It's actually "hlyab" / "hleb", without the extra "k". We are not Arabs. On a related note, an old friend of mine was really into Norwegian back in the day. He used to say Norwegian is very similar to English. Is that true?
- progre 5y ago
  Lots of words are similar. Both are decendants of old norse, but English has accuired quite a bit of latin since the Norman conquest
  - stevula 5y ago
    English does not descend form Old Norse (a North Germanic language). It was merely influenced by it due to Viking invasions of the British isles. English is a West Germanic language more closely related to Frisian.
    - Derek_Mudaxe 5y ago
      Old English is definitely West Germanic. It's much less clear whether Middle and current English can be considered more West Germanic or more North Germanic; there's still a debate raging on.
      - stevula 5y ago
        There’s not really a debate among linguists. No amount of Old Norse loan words can justify reclassifying English as North Germanic. As far as grammar and syntax are concerned, Old Norse had some interesting effects such as influencing leveling of noun declensions but generally these are just simplifications of native English grammar and not imports from Norse (which had a full on conjugation system). The borrowing of certain Norse pronouns into English is probably one of the most extraordinary changes. Another angle is to look at sound changes. English has shared sound changes with other West Germanic languages, while there are sound changes in North Germanic that English lacks. Compare the initial consonant cluster in West Germanic words for shield: shield / schild (Dutch) / Schild (German) Versus North Germanic: skjold (Danish) / skjöldur (Icelandic) / skydda (Swedish) There are some people who argue Middle English is a creole [1] due to the massive influences from Norman and Old Norse but to say it’s North Germanic (or even Romance?) is pretty incredible. The implication would be that the British Isles spoke a form of Old Norse which absorbed almost all the features of Old English, which is not what our written records show. My understanding is that even the creole theory is not widely accepted among linguists due to some features of creoles that are missing in English (e.g. standardization of irregular verbs, irregular plural nouns, …). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English_creole_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English_creole_hypothes...

by kebman 5y ago

mdturnerphys 5y ago

Yes, the Slavic "хлеб", etc., appear to be cognates with the Germanic "loaf", etc. Wiktionary [0] says they both come from Proto-Germanic "hlaibaz" (reconstructed [1]). [0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loaf#Etymology_1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loaf#Etymology_1 [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Reconstructed_terms https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Reconstructed_term...

CRConrad 5y ago
> Proto-Germanic "hlaibaz" Still there in modern German for "loaf": "Laib".

throwaway894345 5y ago

If you like grain and etymology, you might like the etymology of “barn”: > barn (n.): "covered building for the storage of farm produce," Old English bereærn "barn," literally "barley house," from bere "barley" (see barley) + aern "house," metathesized from rann, rasn (source also of Old Norse rann "large house," Gothic razn "house," Old English rest "resting place"). For the formation, compare Old English sealtærn "saltworks," horsern "stable." In Anglo-Saxon England, barley was a primary grain crop. Barley was not always the only crop grown as the data recovered at Bishopstone might suggest but it is always the most commonly represented, followed by wheat and then rye and oats. [C.J. Arnold, "An Archaeology of the Early Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms," 1988, p.36] > Another word for "barn" in Old English was beretun, "barley enclosure" (from tun "enclosure, house"), which accounts for the many Barton place names on the English map, and the common surname. Applied from early 18c. to any large, barn-like building. Barn door has been used figuratively for "broad target" since 1670s and "great size" since 1540s. Barn-owl attested by 1670s. Barn-raising "a collective effort by neighbors or community members to erect the frame of a barn for one of them, accompanied by a social gathering" is attested by 1849. https://www.etymonline.com/word/barn https://www.etymonline.com/word/barn You might also like The History of English Podcast; I highly recommend it: https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/ https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/

Tagbert 5y ago
I second the recommendation of the History of English. It is a fascinating podcast.
progre 5y ago
And "tun" (enclosure, in Swedish the word means the space between farmhouses on a farm) is the root of the english word "town".
- kebman 5y ago
  The Scandinavian usage of tun is akin to a courtyard, or the open space between a (small and fenced in) collection of houses. Again a courtyard can be traced to Middle Lower German hof, and even onwards to Proto-Germanic hufą, which is cognate with the Scandinavian word for head. And indeed if you want to say "the main part" in Danish or Norwegian you'd say hoveddelen. Hoff additionally means a royal court in Norwegian. On the other hand, the easiest cognate of this word in English is probably that of a horse hoof, which makes sense because such a tun is usually a stamped hard by both humans and their cattle.
gerdesj 5y ago
In Plymouth (Devon, not MA) there is a region called Barne Barton!

Derek_Mudaxe 5y ago

A slice of bread with butter is not a sandwich, it's just bread and butter or buttered bread. Sandwich is a placename, sandy vik, the food item is named after an earl/eoarl/yarl/jarl (take your pick).

Nux 5y ago
In other words "sandwich" is an eponym.
- Derek_Mudaxe 5y ago
  Sometimes yes, sometimes no, it depends on the context.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kebman 5y ago
Just slap the колбаса on the bread instead of your face, and there's your sandwich!

beebeepka 5y ago

It's actually "hlyab" / "hleb", without the extra "k". We are not Arabs. On a related note, an old friend of mine was really into Norwegian back in the day. He used to say Norwegian is very similar to English. Is that true?

progre 5y ago
Lots of words are similar. Both are decendants of old norse, but English has accuired quite a bit of latin since the Norman conquest
- stevula 5y ago
  English does not descend form Old Norse (a North Germanic language). It was merely influenced by it due to Viking invasions of the British isles. English is a West Germanic language more closely related to Frisian.
  - Derek_Mudaxe 5y ago
    Old English is definitely West Germanic. It's much less clear whether Middle and current English can be considered more West Germanic or more North Germanic; there's still a debate raging on.
    - stevula 5y ago
      There’s not really a debate among linguists. No amount of Old Norse loan words can justify reclassifying English as North Germanic. As far as grammar and syntax are concerned, Old Norse had some interesting effects such as influencing leveling of noun declensions but generally these are just simplifications of native English grammar and not imports from Norse (which had a full on conjugation system). The borrowing of certain Norse pronouns into English is probably one of the most extraordinary changes. Another angle is to look at sound changes. English has shared sound changes with other West Germanic languages, while there are sound changes in North Germanic that English lacks. Compare the initial consonant cluster in West Germanic words for shield: shield / schild (Dutch) / Schild (German) Versus North Germanic: skjold (Danish) / skjöldur (Icelandic) / skydda (Swedish) There are some people who argue Middle English is a creole [1] due to the massive influences from Norman and Old Norse but to say it’s North Germanic (or even Romance?) is pretty incredible. The implication would be that the British Isles spoke a form of Old Norse which absorbed almost all the features of Old English, which is not what our written records show. My understanding is that even the creole theory is not widely accepted among linguists due to some features of creoles that are missing in English (e.g. standardization of irregular verbs, irregular plural nouns, …). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English_creole_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English_creole_hypothes...