5 ms·

This is a very interesting article, but I was kind of turned off by the ease with which it described killing people. "To get a solid kill, just put the plane in

This is a very interesting article, but I was kind of turned off by the ease with which it described killing people. "To get a solid kill, just put the plane in the dot and squeeze the trigger, super simple!" I've seen detergent bottles that were more apprehensive about their process of use.

tome 5y ago
I believe in the vernacular "kill" refers to destruction of the enemy aircraft not ending the life of the crew (they are correlated, of course).
- StavrosK 5y ago
  I agree, but still...
  - usrusr 5y ago
    Would it be better or worse if they stuck to an euphemistic verb like "down", as if it was a given that the occupant walked away? I don't know the answer.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - xyzelement 5y ago
    This is a discussion of a military matter, which is all about life and death struggle in many levels. War is about killing. It's an ugly fact but fact nevertheless. It seems like the world kill offends you, but it is an accurate description of the severity of what's going on.
throwanem 5y ago
This is the business that fighter pilots consider themselves to be in, and that shows through in the way they talk about it - I had a history teacher in high school who had previously flown fighters in the Marine Corps, and while he rarely entertained much discussion on that subject, his approach on those occasions was similarly matter-of-fact. I didn't check to see if the article referenced any sources, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a primary one was a conversation with an F-16 pilot.
- StavrosK 5y ago
  Yeah, I'd expect pilots to talk like that, it just had an impression on me because I didn't expect a journalist explaining something to have the same vernacular.
  - throwanem 5y ago
    Fighter pilots are also, by all accounts including my own, very much among the most confident human beings anyone is ever likely to meet - that teacher I'm thinking of certainly was. It can easily make a strong impression; most of the guys in that class had a huge crush on the idea of growing up to be like him, while many of the girls (and I!) just had a huge crush on him. There is no reason to assume this sort of thing only occurs among high schoolers, or in any case that a Gizmodo writer would be more likely to embark upon a serious consideration of the moral weight of aerial combat than to focus on its literal and figurative whiz-bang, wow-cool-robot aspects, of which there is no shortage.
- gostsamo 5y ago
  The article is a copy of a Quora answer. Not even sure if there was a journalist involved. https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-fighter-jet-lock-onto-and-keep-track-of-an-enemy-aircraft-Can-an-aircraft-detect-that-it-has-been-locked-onto-or-is-it-just-a-convenient-plot-device-in-movies https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-fighter-jet-lock-onto-and-k... Edit: Quora link.
  - throwanem 5y ago
    Ah, written by a pilot and fighter nerd, this also checks out. Fighter pilots are kind of the ultimate cool kids from the perspective of a milstuff nerd, and there is an unusual degree of hero worship among that cohort already.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
fb13 5y ago
Well, living in a highly militarized US city that sees vendors come in for various presentations regularly, not only is "lethality" a word that businesses use to sell, but also one everyone gets excited to hear. It's definitely weird at first as a civilian. But I see how it quickly becomes CAC/LTV.
throw10293847 5y ago
Lock on target: "Snowflake"
scottLobster 5y ago
At the end of the day the military is primarily there to achieve various ends through killing or the threat of killing. What good would it do to obscure that? Not all killing is bad
luma 5y ago
Anyone flying a fighter jet in aerial combat with other fighter jets knows what they signed up for and are facing opponents who signed up for the same thing. War is terrible, but this is one of the very few situations in modern combat where there is a clear line between civilians and the combatants. Everyone engaged is a willing participant. In this situation I'll apply Doug Stanhope's logic: > As long as the people who kinda wanna go kill other people are going to go kill other people who kinda wanna go kill other people, you're killing all the right people and opening up all the best parking spaces.
- StavrosK 5y ago
  Well, that's sound logic and a great quote, thanks!
- weswpg 5y ago
  > opening up all the best parking spaces. Funny quote, but I don't think front-line infantry have the best parking spaces. That would be the flag officers.
  - luma 5y ago
    Not sure what country you are from but in most air forces, front-line infantry aren't flying fighter jets.
    - throwanem 5y ago
      Close air support blurs the line a little, especially inasmuch as (in US forces at least) those pilots are both uniquely beloved among the infantry they support and with whom they share many hazards, and also much differently regarded by "real" combat pilots as halfway to being ground pounders themselves.
- rascul 5y ago
  > Everyone engaged is a willing participant. Conscription is a thing in many countries. Not sure how many conscripts are flying, though.

tome 5y ago

I believe in the vernacular "kill" refers to destruction of the enemy aircraft not ending the life of the crew (they are correlated, of course).

StavrosK 5y ago
I agree, but still...
- usrusr 5y ago
  Would it be better or worse if they stuck to an euphemistic verb like "down", as if it was a given that the occupant walked away? I don't know the answer.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- xyzelement 5y ago
  This is a discussion of a military matter, which is all about life and death struggle in many levels. War is about killing. It's an ugly fact but fact nevertheless. It seems like the world kill offends you, but it is an accurate description of the severity of what's going on.

throwanem 5y ago

This is the business that fighter pilots consider themselves to be in, and that shows through in the way they talk about it - I had a history teacher in high school who had previously flown fighters in the Marine Corps, and while he rarely entertained much discussion on that subject, his approach on those occasions was similarly matter-of-fact. I didn't check to see if the article referenced any sources, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a primary one was a conversation with an F-16 pilot.

StavrosK 5y ago
Yeah, I'd expect pilots to talk like that, it just had an impression on me because I didn't expect a journalist explaining something to have the same vernacular.
- throwanem 5y ago
  Fighter pilots are also, by all accounts including my own, very much among the most confident human beings anyone is ever likely to meet - that teacher I'm thinking of certainly was. It can easily make a strong impression; most of the guys in that class had a huge crush on the idea of growing up to be like him, while many of the girls (and I!) just had a huge crush on him. There is no reason to assume this sort of thing only occurs among high schoolers, or in any case that a Gizmodo writer would be more likely to embark upon a serious consideration of the moral weight of aerial combat than to focus on its literal and figurative whiz-bang, wow-cool-robot aspects, of which there is no shortage.
gostsamo 5y ago
The article is a copy of a Quora answer. Not even sure if there was a journalist involved. https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-fighter-jet-lock-onto-and-keep-track-of-an-enemy-aircraft-Can-an-aircraft-detect-that-it-has-been-locked-onto-or-is-it-just-a-convenient-plot-device-in-movies https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-fighter-jet-lock-onto-and-k... Edit: Quora link.
- throwanem 5y ago
  Ah, written by a pilot and fighter nerd, this also checks out. Fighter pilots are kind of the ultimate cool kids from the perspective of a milstuff nerd, and there is an unusual degree of hero worship among that cohort already.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

fb13 5y ago

Well, living in a highly militarized US city that sees vendors come in for various presentations regularly, not only is "lethality" a word that businesses use to sell, but also one everyone gets excited to hear. It's definitely weird at first as a civilian. But I see how it quickly becomes CAC/LTV.

throw10293847 5y ago

Lock on target: "Snowflake"

scottLobster 5y ago

At the end of the day the military is primarily there to achieve various ends through killing or the threat of killing. What good would it do to obscure that? Not all killing is bad

luma 5y ago

Anyone flying a fighter jet in aerial combat with other fighter jets knows what they signed up for and are facing opponents who signed up for the same thing. War is terrible, but this is one of the very few situations in modern combat where there is a clear line between civilians and the combatants. Everyone engaged is a willing participant. In this situation I'll apply Doug Stanhope's logic: > As long as the people who kinda wanna go kill other people are going to go kill other people who kinda wanna go kill other people, you're killing all the right people and opening up all the best parking spaces.

StavrosK 5y ago
Well, that's sound logic and a great quote, thanks!
weswpg 5y ago
> opening up all the best parking spaces. Funny quote, but I don't think front-line infantry have the best parking spaces. That would be the flag officers.
- luma 5y ago
  Not sure what country you are from but in most air forces, front-line infantry aren't flying fighter jets.
  - throwanem 5y ago
    Close air support blurs the line a little, especially inasmuch as (in US forces at least) those pilots are both uniquely beloved among the infantry they support and with whom they share many hazards, and also much differently regarded by "real" combat pilots as halfway to being ground pounders themselves.
rascul 5y ago
> Everyone engaged is a willing participant. Conscription is a thing in many countries. Not sure how many conscripts are flying, though.