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Thank you for your thoughtful downvote. However I don't really follow. The discussion is clearly about politics here, so it probably does not count as off-topi

Thank you for your thoughtful downvote. However I don't really follow. The discussion is clearly about politics here, so it probably does not count as off-topic. Also, fascism has a massive influence on the economy, making it relevant. If you merely dispute my view that there's fascist tendencies in the US, that is fair, but no reason for a downvote, I'd argue.

Delk 5y ago
As a European who probably agrees with you regarding many policies: You may be able to argue that quality of life is better in Europe or with European-style policies [1]. Everyone having health insurance and less of a need to worry about your basics needs met are fair points. I wouldn't want to live in a society that doesn't seem to care that much about economic equality. But "about to be ruled by a fascist"? Trump lost the election. Sure the diverging right is worrying, but is the country "about to be ruled" by a fascist? And "getting shot at school/street" is pretty much just a cheap shot. I haven't been to the U.S., but I'm willing to wager that for most Americans getting shot is not a primary concern. I'm not saying shootings don't happen or that they aren't tragic, because they do and they are, or that the U.S. don't have a problem. But when they do happen, they obviously get so much visibility and attention that their emotional effect is greater than their actual chances of affecting you in your life, in a way that's not entirely dissimilar to terrorist attacks. That makes appealing to shootings a populist-style emotional argument: easy to throw around and force people's attention with, not entirely truthful, and much more work to argue against than the argument would substantially warrant. That also makes it pretty annoying and bothersome. So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. [1] Although both Europe and the U.S. are diverse enough that it's going to get tricky; I'm not sure there is such a homogenous thing as "Europe" when it comes to quality of life. But that's a digression.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
  > So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. Yeah. I know I should dial it down a little. But I'm actually really concerned about the US. They do have a lot of mass shootings, and not even tackling this problem does point to a larger dysfunction in the US. And Trump does not accept is loss and 60% of republicans agree. That's why I actually fear that the next elections in the US will not be democratic. https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16 https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16
  - whiddershins 5y ago
    You don’t understand what the mass shootings are and who does them.
    - j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
      Yeah but the people writing the articles I read do.
      - whiddershins 5y ago
        Really? I could have sworn you mentioned school shootings. Which are rare, which is why they make the headlines. In Chicago there are mass shootings every weekend that get no press coverage. The inner city gang warfare and similar makes up the vast majority of mass shootings in the U.S. Mass shootings have basically nothing to do with small town and rural NRA members. Did you already know all that?
        j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
        In my last post, where I actually agreed that I should dial it down a little, I therefore wrote about mass shootings. I really don't care about who shoots who. You know, as an European I know for a fact that if less people have guns, less shooting happens, no matter who's the shooter. And of course your rural NRA member has a huge influence on inner city shootings, after all the NRA is also responsible for the laws leading to that many guns circulating. So yeah, I know those things, and I know how wrong you are. Again, I actually live in a country with very few mass shootings, whatever the NRA tells you, they do exist. It seems like NRA "a good guy with a gun" propaganda works though, although I can't really believe that.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        "Rare"? Matter of definition. Most other coutries have had at most one per country; I think Germany may be among the worst hit, and it has had something like six, total. The USA has, AFAIK, at least one per year. Idunno, I don't think I'd call that particularly rare.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > But "about to be ruled by a fascist"? That was wrong, but just slightly. It wasn't fascism,but nazism. «Evidence in Trump supporter’s trial suggests he espoused Nazi ideals» https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/brendan-hunt-trial-capitol-riot/2021/04/22/6bfb7cc0-a398-11eb-a774-7b47ceb36ee8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/brendan-hun... > And "getting shot at school/street" is pretty much just a cheap shot. It's an enormous social and political problem, caused by the way people live in US and the incentive system that rewards the stronger over the weaker and if you can't beat them, kill them. > but I'm willing to wager that for most Americans getting shot is not a primary concern That's the problem. Coming from Europe I am used to not being killed in the streets, in US the risk of being shot is 10 times higher. It's a lot! Consider this: it is safer to go to Nigeria than to Los Angeles. Los Angeles had 300 homicides last year (they increased over 2019, during a pandemic! ) while in the comparably sized European city of Rome violent crimes went down 80% and there were "only" 19 homicides in 2020. Also police brutality is an overlooked issue there: every year police shoot and kills around 1 thousand people in US, comparing their population to my country's, we should have 60 kills every year by the police, but in reality we have around 1 (one!) and it causes riots in the streets because we consider it unacceptable. edit: I understand these are controversial topics and many Americans have different opinions tha mine on them, but as an European citizen and parent, what scares me the most is that these are all solvable issues, many other countries have solved them long time ago, while in US the debate hasn't even started yet. I also understand that facing the numbers is hard for some American people, it shatters the idea of "the greatest democracy in the World", but they are unfortunately real and verifiable. For example: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/23/us/los-angeles-homicides-high/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/23/us/los-angeles-homicides-...
  - Delk 5y ago
    > It wasn't fascism,but nazism. That's not really the point, and I'm not sure the semantics matter. I'm also not doubting that Trump would take up any "ideal" that supports his ego and power. Or that, among Trump supporters, there are people who would in fact be ready to go so far as fascism or nazism. I just think that, in a thread about the quality of life in different economic cultures, "about to be ruled by a fascists" is kind of cheap rhetoric if you can't actually argue that the U.S. are in fact close to being ruled by one. > Coming from Europe I am used to not being killed in the streets, in US the risk of being shot is 10 times higher. That's continuing along nearly the same lines of rhetoric as the comment I responded to. 10 times the risk means there's some kind of a meaningful difference, but that doesn't mean it becomes a huge risk. "10 times higher" is a lot as a ratio, but it doesn't mean shootings actually happen a lot. They might, but your figure alone isn't enough to show that. That's the same as with disease: 10 times the risk of a rare disease might still be rare. It might mean an actual, substantially elevated risk, or it might not. I gets you nice headlines either way, of course. If you wanted to argue that getting shot at is a major quality of life concern in the U.S., you would need to show that it actually is a major concern for a large proportion of Americans that affects their quality of life, not just that the ratio of occurrences compared to Europe is large. Again, I disagree about the style of rhetoric. I don't want to argue that gun violence isn't a problem. But I'm not sure us Europeans should tell Americans how that affects their quality of life in general. It's also easy to fall into the trap of stereotypes such as school shootings being everywhere and affecting everyday life. If it's not actually like that, then it's just a stereotype. Which is exactly what ChuckNorris89 was complaining about.

Delk 5y ago

As a European who probably agrees with you regarding many policies: You may be able to argue that quality of life is better in Europe or with European-style policies [1]. Everyone having health insurance and less of a need to worry about your basics needs met are fair points. I wouldn't want to live in a society that doesn't seem to care that much about economic equality. But "about to be ruled by a fascist"? Trump lost the election. Sure the diverging right is worrying, but is the country "about to be ruled" by a fascist? And "getting shot at school/street" is pretty much just a cheap shot. I haven't been to the U.S., but I'm willing to wager that for most Americans getting shot is not a primary concern. I'm not saying shootings don't happen or that they aren't tragic, because they do and they are, or that the U.S. don't have a problem. But when they do happen, they obviously get so much visibility and attention that their emotional effect is greater than their actual chances of affecting you in your life, in a way that's not entirely dissimilar to terrorist attacks. That makes appealing to shootings a populist-style emotional argument: easy to throw around and force people's attention with, not entirely truthful, and much more work to argue against than the argument would substantially warrant. That also makes it pretty annoying and bothersome. So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. [1] Although both Europe and the U.S. are diverse enough that it's going to get tricky; I'm not sure there is such a homogenous thing as "Europe" when it comes to quality of life. But that's a digression.

j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
> So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. Yeah. I know I should dial it down a little. But I'm actually really concerned about the US. They do have a lot of mass shootings, and not even tackling this problem does point to a larger dysfunction in the US. And Trump does not accept is loss and 60% of republicans agree. That's why I actually fear that the next elections in the US will not be democratic. https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16 https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16
- whiddershins 5y ago
  You don’t understand what the mass shootings are and who does them.
  - j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
    Yeah but the people writing the articles I read do.
    - whiddershins 5y ago
      Really? I could have sworn you mentioned school shootings. Which are rare, which is why they make the headlines. In Chicago there are mass shootings every weekend that get no press coverage. The inner city gang warfare and similar makes up the vast majority of mass shootings in the U.S. Mass shootings have basically nothing to do with small town and rural NRA members. Did you already know all that?
      - j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
        In my last post, where I actually agreed that I should dial it down a little, I therefore wrote about mass shootings. I really don't care about who shoots who. You know, as an European I know for a fact that if less people have guns, less shooting happens, no matter who's the shooter. And of course your rural NRA member has a huge influence on inner city shootings, after all the NRA is also responsible for the laws leading to that many guns circulating. So yeah, I know those things, and I know how wrong you are. Again, I actually live in a country with very few mass shootings, whatever the NRA tells you, they do exist. It seems like NRA "a good guy with a gun" propaganda works though, although I can't really believe that.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        "Rare"? Matter of definition. Most other coutries have had at most one per country; I think Germany may be among the worst hit, and it has had something like six, total. The USA has, AFAIK, at least one per year. Idunno, I don't think I'd call that particularly rare.
peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> But "about to be ruled by a fascist"? That was wrong, but just slightly. It wasn't fascism,but nazism. «Evidence in Trump supporter’s trial suggests he espoused Nazi ideals» https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/brendan-hunt-trial-capitol-riot/2021/04/22/6bfb7cc0-a398-11eb-a774-7b47ceb36ee8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/brendan-hun... > And "getting shot at school/street" is pretty much just a cheap shot. It's an enormous social and political problem, caused by the way people live in US and the incentive system that rewards the stronger over the weaker and if you can't beat them, kill them. > but I'm willing to wager that for most Americans getting shot is not a primary concern That's the problem. Coming from Europe I am used to not being killed in the streets, in US the risk of being shot is 10 times higher. It's a lot! Consider this: it is safer to go to Nigeria than to Los Angeles. Los Angeles had 300 homicides last year (they increased over 2019, during a pandemic! ) while in the comparably sized European city of Rome violent crimes went down 80% and there were "only" 19 homicides in 2020. Also police brutality is an overlooked issue there: every year police shoot and kills around 1 thousand people in US, comparing their population to my country's, we should have 60 kills every year by the police, but in reality we have around 1 (one!) and it causes riots in the streets because we consider it unacceptable. edit: I understand these are controversial topics and many Americans have different opinions tha mine on them, but as an European citizen and parent, what scares me the most is that these are all solvable issues, many other countries have solved them long time ago, while in US the debate hasn't even started yet. I also understand that facing the numbers is hard for some American people, it shatters the idea of "the greatest democracy in the World", but they are unfortunately real and verifiable. For example: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/23/us/los-angeles-homicides-high/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/23/us/los-angeles-homicides-...
- Delk 5y ago
  > It wasn't fascism,but nazism. That's not really the point, and I'm not sure the semantics matter. I'm also not doubting that Trump would take up any "ideal" that supports his ego and power. Or that, among Trump supporters, there are people who would in fact be ready to go so far as fascism or nazism. I just think that, in a thread about the quality of life in different economic cultures, "about to be ruled by a fascists" is kind of cheap rhetoric if you can't actually argue that the U.S. are in fact close to being ruled by one. > Coming from Europe I am used to not being killed in the streets, in US the risk of being shot is 10 times higher. That's continuing along nearly the same lines of rhetoric as the comment I responded to. 10 times the risk means there's some kind of a meaningful difference, but that doesn't mean it becomes a huge risk. "10 times higher" is a lot as a ratio, but it doesn't mean shootings actually happen a lot. They might, but your figure alone isn't enough to show that. That's the same as with disease: 10 times the risk of a rare disease might still be rare. It might mean an actual, substantially elevated risk, or it might not. I gets you nice headlines either way, of course. If you wanted to argue that getting shot at is a major quality of life concern in the U.S., you would need to show that it actually is a major concern for a large proportion of Americans that affects their quality of life, not just that the ratio of occurrences compared to Europe is large. Again, I disagree about the style of rhetoric. I don't want to argue that gun violence isn't a problem. But I'm not sure us Europeans should tell Americans how that affects their quality of life in general. It's also easy to fall into the trap of stereotypes such as school shootings being everywhere and affecting everyday life. If it's not actually like that, then it's just a stereotype. Which is exactly what ChuckNorris89 was complaining about.