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>we're not getting shot in school, and also we're not on the way to be ruled by a fascist I downvoted you since you're going massively off-topic with your gene

>we're not getting shot in school, and also we're not on the way to be ruled by a fascist I downvoted you since you're going massively off-topic with your generalizations about the US that have no place on HN.

j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
Thank you for your thoughtful downvote. However I don't really follow. The discussion is clearly about politics here, so it probably does not count as off-topic. Also, fascism has a massive influence on the economy, making it relevant. If you merely dispute my view that there's fascist tendencies in the US, that is fair, but no reason for a downvote, I'd argue.
- Delk 5y ago
  As a European who probably agrees with you regarding many policies: You may be able to argue that quality of life is better in Europe or with European-style policies [1]. Everyone having health insurance and less of a need to worry about your basics needs met are fair points. I wouldn't want to live in a society that doesn't seem to care that much about economic equality. But "about to be ruled by a fascist"? Trump lost the election. Sure the diverging right is worrying, but is the country "about to be ruled" by a fascist? And "getting shot at school/street" is pretty much just a cheap shot. I haven't been to the U.S., but I'm willing to wager that for most Americans getting shot is not a primary concern. I'm not saying shootings don't happen or that they aren't tragic, because they do and they are, or that the U.S. don't have a problem. But when they do happen, they obviously get so much visibility and attention that their emotional effect is greater than their actual chances of affecting you in your life, in a way that's not entirely dissimilar to terrorist attacks. That makes appealing to shootings a populist-style emotional argument: easy to throw around and force people's attention with, not entirely truthful, and much more work to argue against than the argument would substantially warrant. That also makes it pretty annoying and bothersome. So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. [1] Although both Europe and the U.S. are diverse enough that it's going to get tricky; I'm not sure there is such a homogenous thing as "Europe" when it comes to quality of life. But that's a digression.
  - j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
    > So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. Yeah. I know I should dial it down a little. But I'm actually really concerned about the US. They do have a lot of mass shootings, and not even tackling this problem does point to a larger dysfunction in the US. And Trump does not accept is loss and 60% of republicans agree. That's why I actually fear that the next elections in the US will not be democratic. https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16 https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16
    - whiddershins 5y ago
      You don’t understand what the mass shootings are and who does them.
      - j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
        Yeah but the people writing the articles I read do.
        whiddershins 5y ago
        Really? I could have sworn you mentioned school shootings. Which are rare, which is why they make the headlines. In Chicago there are mass shootings every weekend that get no press coverage. The inner city gang warfare and similar makes up the vast majority of mass shootings in the U.S. Mass shootings have basically nothing to do with small town and rural NRA members. Did you already know all that?
        j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
        In my last post, where I actually agreed that I should dial it down a little, I therefore wrote about mass shootings. I really don't care about who shoots who. You know, as an European I know for a fact that if less people have guns, less shooting happens, no matter who's the shooter. And of course your rural NRA member has a huge influence on inner city shootings, after all the NRA is also responsible for the laws leading to that many guns circulating. So yeah, I know those things, and I know how wrong you are. Again, I actually live in a country with very few mass shootings, whatever the NRA tells you, they do exist. It seems like NRA "a good guy with a gun" propaganda works though, although I can't really believe that.

j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago

Thank you for your thoughtful downvote. However I don't really follow. The discussion is clearly about politics here, so it probably does not count as off-topic. Also, fascism has a massive influence on the economy, making it relevant. If you merely dispute my view that there's fascist tendencies in the US, that is fair, but no reason for a downvote, I'd argue.

Delk 5y ago
As a European who probably agrees with you regarding many policies: You may be able to argue that quality of life is better in Europe or with European-style policies [1]. Everyone having health insurance and less of a need to worry about your basics needs met are fair points. I wouldn't want to live in a society that doesn't seem to care that much about economic equality. But "about to be ruled by a fascist"? Trump lost the election. Sure the diverging right is worrying, but is the country "about to be ruled" by a fascist? And "getting shot at school/street" is pretty much just a cheap shot. I haven't been to the U.S., but I'm willing to wager that for most Americans getting shot is not a primary concern. I'm not saying shootings don't happen or that they aren't tragic, because they do and they are, or that the U.S. don't have a problem. But when they do happen, they obviously get so much visibility and attention that their emotional effect is greater than their actual chances of affecting you in your life, in a way that's not entirely dissimilar to terrorist attacks. That makes appealing to shootings a populist-style emotional argument: easy to throw around and force people's attention with, not entirely truthful, and much more work to argue against than the argument would substantially warrant. That also makes it pretty annoying and bothersome. So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. [1] Although both Europe and the U.S. are diverse enough that it's going to get tricky; I'm not sure there is such a homogenous thing as "Europe" when it comes to quality of life. But that's a digression.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
  > So, I kind of get why people might not like your argumentation style. Yeah. I know I should dial it down a little. But I'm actually really concerned about the US. They do have a lot of mass shootings, and not even tackling this problem does point to a larger dysfunction in the US. And Trump does not accept is loss and 60% of republicans agree. That's why I actually fear that the next elections in the US will not be democratic. https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16 https://snyder.substack.com/p/911-and-16
  - whiddershins 5y ago
    You don’t understand what the mass shootings are and who does them.
    - j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
      Yeah but the people writing the articles I read do.
      - whiddershins 5y ago
        Really? I could have sworn you mentioned school shootings. Which are rare, which is why they make the headlines. In Chicago there are mass shootings every weekend that get no press coverage. The inner city gang warfare and similar makes up the vast majority of mass shootings in the U.S. Mass shootings have basically nothing to do with small town and rural NRA members. Did you already know all that?
        j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
        In my last post, where I actually agreed that I should dial it down a little, I therefore wrote about mass shootings. I really don't care about who shoots who. You know, as an European I know for a fact that if less people have guns, less shooting happens, no matter who's the shooter. And of course your rural NRA member has a huge influence on inner city shootings, after all the NRA is also responsible for the laws leading to that many guns circulating. So yeah, I know those things, and I know how wrong you are. Again, I actually live in a country with very few mass shootings, whatever the NRA tells you, they do exist. It seems like NRA "a good guy with a gun" propaganda works though, although I can't really believe that.