4 ms·

One day the British will have to face up to their genocidal colonial legacy.

hermitcrab 5y ago
A lot of people certainly died through indifference, neglect and their resources being misappropriated (e.g. Bengal famine, Irish potato famine, Highland clearances etc). But I'm not aware that the British Empire ever did anything deliberately genocidal, in the way that, say, the Nazis or the Romans attempted to destroy whole peoples.
- eigenket 5y ago
  The Boer war might count, I'm sure there are other examples > The British response to guerrilla warfare was to set up complex nets of blockhouses, strongpoints, and barbed wire fences, partitioning off the entire conquered territory. In addition, civilian farms and livestock were destroyed as part of a scorched earth policy. Survivors were forced into concentration camps. Very large proportions of these civilians died of hunger and disease, especially the children
  - azalemeth 5y ago
    My grandmother's parents were in one of these concentration camps. She told stories about how the British used to arrive periodically to kill all the chickens and lifestock and try to maximise famine, and how her dad was a gun-runner for the Boers. She later emigrated to London (!).
  - hermitcrab 5y ago
    Accounts of the Boer concentration camps are horrific. And the scorched earth policy was brutal. I don't think it was a deliberate attempt to exterminate the Boers though. Just to subjugate them enough so the British empire could take what it wanted.
  - ArkanExplorer 5y ago
    The lesson of genocide appears to be: carry it out in the most boring way possible (starvation, exposure, disease, suppression of fertility) and people will forget about it or never realize it occurred. As soon as you introduce novel technologies or extensive record-keeping, your actions remain cemented in history and popular consciousness.
- mustafa_pasi 5y ago
  A colonizing force takes over your country, steals your resources and exploits your people, and your people suffer. You try to resist and you are murdered. Then some guy on the internet says, "I don't think the colonizing force ever did anything deliberately genocidal" as if that somehow excuses all the other evil they committed.
  - hermitcrab 5y ago
    Genocide is: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." Did the British empire do plenty of bad things? Yes, I would say so. Did it deliberately commit genocide? I'm not so sure. Please feel free to provide an example.
  - hermitcrab 5y ago
    Re-read your post and my answer missed the mark. You weren't accusing the British empire of genocide. My bad. Certainly I'm not out to excuse the British empire for any atrocities that were committed. Yes, times were different and other empires have been much worse. But a lot of dreadful things were done. Britain gunboats forcing China to accept Indian opium comes to mind as a particulalry shameful and inexcusable example.
- fit2rule 5y ago
  Australia was genocide.
globular-toast 5y ago
What does "face up" mean? Obviously nobody alive today was responsible for it.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  Well tell that to the Germans who are paying repetitions for a genocide of Namibian at the turn of the century. Their government is still descended from a government which committed genocide.
- ben_w 5y ago
  The end of the Empire is not precisely defined (Suez? Wind of Change? Hong Kong? When Northern Ireland finally stops being part of the UK?), but British/Empire forces have faced and lost cases since WW2, the most recent cases that I know of being last decade (but I don’t keep close track of this sort of thing, so may be this decade). The current British government does not appear to wish to face up to anything, but that isn’t merely limited to war crimes or crimes against humanity committed by those who are now half forgotten statues — this particular one also denies its own election pledges.
tinomaxgalvin 5y ago
It all happened before we were born. Should the Italians face up to what the Romans did?
- pjc50 5y ago
  Hardly - some of it is still under active litigation! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49721166 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49721166
- shubhamkrm 5y ago
  That's a bullshit analogy. The current Italian state is not a direct successor to the Roman Empire, while it's the same damn government in the UK. Besides, it wasn't that long ago. It was done by your parents and grandparents, and you are still enjoying the fruits of that exploitation.
  - maccard 5y ago
    It's unlikely that anyone here's parents or grandparents were involved. Considering the east India company was abolished 160 years ago, it's more likely your great great (great) grandparents were involved. Agreed on every other point though.
    - shubhamkrm 5y ago
      The empire didn't end with East India Company. The British Crown simply took over. Colonies started getting freedom only after WWII, and some like Nigeria were under the Brits till 1960.

A lot of people certainly died through indifference, neglect and their resources being misappropriated (e.g. Bengal famine, Irish potato famine, Highland clearances etc). But I'm not aware that the British Empire ever did anything deliberately genocidal, in the way that, say, the Nazis or the Romans attempted to destroy whole peoples.

eigenket 5y ago
The Boer war might count, I'm sure there are other examples > The British response to guerrilla warfare was to set up complex nets of blockhouses, strongpoints, and barbed wire fences, partitioning off the entire conquered territory. In addition, civilian farms and livestock were destroyed as part of a scorched earth policy. Survivors were forced into concentration camps. Very large proportions of these civilians died of hunger and disease, especially the children
- azalemeth 5y ago
  My grandmother's parents were in one of these concentration camps. She told stories about how the British used to arrive periodically to kill all the chickens and lifestock and try to maximise famine, and how her dad was a gun-runner for the Boers. She later emigrated to London (!).
- hermitcrab 5y ago
  Accounts of the Boer concentration camps are horrific. And the scorched earth policy was brutal. I don't think it was a deliberate attempt to exterminate the Boers though. Just to subjugate them enough so the British empire could take what it wanted.
- ArkanExplorer 5y ago
  The lesson of genocide appears to be: carry it out in the most boring way possible (starvation, exposure, disease, suppression of fertility) and people will forget about it or never realize it occurred. As soon as you introduce novel technologies or extensive record-keeping, your actions remain cemented in history and popular consciousness.
mustafa_pasi 5y ago
A colonizing force takes over your country, steals your resources and exploits your people, and your people suffer. You try to resist and you are murdered. Then some guy on the internet says, "I don't think the colonizing force ever did anything deliberately genocidal" as if that somehow excuses all the other evil they committed.
- hermitcrab 5y ago
  Genocide is: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." Did the British empire do plenty of bad things? Yes, I would say so. Did it deliberately commit genocide? I'm not so sure. Please feel free to provide an example.
- hermitcrab 5y ago
  Re-read your post and my answer missed the mark. You weren't accusing the British empire of genocide. My bad. Certainly I'm not out to excuse the British empire for any atrocities that were committed. Yes, times were different and other empires have been much worse. But a lot of dreadful things were done. Britain gunboats forcing China to accept Indian opium comes to mind as a particulalry shameful and inexcusable example.
fit2rule 5y ago
Australia was genocide.

globular-toast 5y ago

What does "face up" mean? Obviously nobody alive today was responsible for it.

Synaesthesia 5y ago
Well tell that to the Germans who are paying repetitions for a genocide of Namibian at the turn of the century. Their government is still descended from a government which committed genocide.
ben_w 5y ago
The end of the Empire is not precisely defined (Suez? Wind of Change? Hong Kong? When Northern Ireland finally stops being part of the UK?), but British/Empire forces have faced and lost cases since WW2, the most recent cases that I know of being last decade (but I don’t keep close track of this sort of thing, so may be this decade). The current British government does not appear to wish to face up to anything, but that isn’t merely limited to war crimes or crimes against humanity committed by those who are now half forgotten statues — this particular one also denies its own election pledges.

tinomaxgalvin 5y ago

It all happened before we were born. Should the Italians face up to what the Romans did?

pjc50 5y ago
Hardly - some of it is still under active litigation! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49721166 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49721166
shubhamkrm 5y ago
That's a bullshit analogy. The current Italian state is not a direct successor to the Roman Empire, while it's the same damn government in the UK. Besides, it wasn't that long ago. It was done by your parents and grandparents, and you are still enjoying the fruits of that exploitation.
- maccard 5y ago
  It's unlikely that anyone here's parents or grandparents were involved. Considering the east India company was abolished 160 years ago, it's more likely your great great (great) grandparents were involved. Agreed on every other point though.
  - shubhamkrm 5y ago
    The empire didn't end with East India Company. The British Crown simply took over. Colonies started getting freedom only after WWII, and some like Nigeria were under the Brits till 1960.