5 ms·

> Paying by bank account doesn't mean handing over bank account info. It's nice that it works that way for you, but it does in Germany. You don't need to hand

> Paying by bank account doesn't mean handing over bank account info. It's nice that it works that way for you, but it does in Germany. You don't need to hand over your login information or anything, but wiring money in any form means that they have your account number. The account number is sufficient to debit the account at a later point. Obviously they're not allowed to do that without your explicit consent, but a malicious actor could.

BrandoElFollito 5y ago
If you mean that some organization (not an individual) could Direct Debit you, then you have to hive your bank an explicit agreement for that. If you do not, you reject the payment and it is now the bank problem. An IBAN is never a secret.
- Cu3PO42 5y ago
  Yes, you can have the charge reversed, but they can still make the charge initially. In that sense it is no different from a credit card: if they have your info, they can charge you again and you can have the charge reversed.
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    Direct Debit requires a special license - this is not something any company can dio. Making a fraudulent charge will have this license revoked. The authorization from the person being debited is required but in practical terms it does not always happen. People request DD and then forget to make the paperwork (today this is better because more and more DD agreements is arranged electronically). The bank will the allow the DD without the paperwork to make it easier for everyone (and ask the case to be fixed). In any case this i stheir risk but in the vast majority of cases it works.
    - Cu3PO42 5y ago
      > Making a fraudulent charge will have this license revoked. Absolutely, but the same is true for credit card charges as well. Your acquirer will terminate your contract if you make fraudulent charges against credit/debit cards. I am not arguing that you shouldn't wire money or use direct debit. I am just pointing out that it carries much of the same risks to the consumer as using a credit or debit card. (Which is virtually none since you can have charges revoked.) This observation is, in my opinion, relevant since many people in Germany seem to think that one is much safer than the other.
      - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
        The main difference is that in order to have Direct Debit capacities you must have a special, tight arrangement with the banking system. A generic company does not have this possibility. So if I find your IBAN, the work I would need to put in place to get money from your bank would be enormous (= securing the DD arrangement with the bank). If I know your CC number, I can easily cash it out (by making a payment out of it, or to register a PCI account (eg. with stripe).
        Cu3PO42 5y ago
        > by making a payment out of it I fail to see the difference here. If I have your IBAN and you haven't universally disabled direct debit on your account I can also use it to pay for something, for example by ordering anything I want from Amazon. > eg. with stripe Funny that you should mention Stripe specifically. You can accept SEPA direct debit payments with Stripe: https://stripe.com/docs/sources/sepa-debit https://stripe.com/docs/sources/sepa-debit It is possible that the compliance requirements around this are slightly higher than for accepting only Credit Cards, but looking at the documentation I don't see any indication of this. Further, credit/debit card payments are subject to SCA whereas direct debit is exempt from SCA if the mandate is given directly to the payee without involvement of their PSP.
        logifail 5y ago
        > If I have your IBAN [..] Bank account details aren't typically regarded as (worth keeping) secret, to the extent that many businesses are happy to stick their IBAN on their website. Credit card details, on the other hand, aren't ever published in this way.
charsi 5y ago
In India having somebody's bank details is not enough to debit it. Many business post their full account numbers and IFSC codes (sort of like a sort code) but with that info people can only send money into their account.

BrandoElFollito 5y ago

If you mean that some organization (not an individual) could Direct Debit you, then you have to hive your bank an explicit agreement for that. If you do not, you reject the payment and it is now the bank problem. An IBAN is never a secret.

Cu3PO42 5y ago
Yes, you can have the charge reversed, but they can still make the charge initially. In that sense it is no different from a credit card: if they have your info, they can charge you again and you can have the charge reversed.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  Direct Debit requires a special license - this is not something any company can dio. Making a fraudulent charge will have this license revoked. The authorization from the person being debited is required but in practical terms it does not always happen. People request DD and then forget to make the paperwork (today this is better because more and more DD agreements is arranged electronically). The bank will the allow the DD without the paperwork to make it easier for everyone (and ask the case to be fixed). In any case this i stheir risk but in the vast majority of cases it works.
  - Cu3PO42 5y ago
    > Making a fraudulent charge will have this license revoked. Absolutely, but the same is true for credit card charges as well. Your acquirer will terminate your contract if you make fraudulent charges against credit/debit cards. I am not arguing that you shouldn't wire money or use direct debit. I am just pointing out that it carries much of the same risks to the consumer as using a credit or debit card. (Which is virtually none since you can have charges revoked.) This observation is, in my opinion, relevant since many people in Germany seem to think that one is much safer than the other.
    - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
      The main difference is that in order to have Direct Debit capacities you must have a special, tight arrangement with the banking system. A generic company does not have this possibility. So if I find your IBAN, the work I would need to put in place to get money from your bank would be enormous (= securing the DD arrangement with the bank). If I know your CC number, I can easily cash it out (by making a payment out of it, or to register a PCI account (eg. with stripe).
      - Cu3PO42 5y ago
        > by making a payment out of it I fail to see the difference here. If I have your IBAN and you haven't universally disabled direct debit on your account I can also use it to pay for something, for example by ordering anything I want from Amazon. > eg. with stripe Funny that you should mention Stripe specifically. You can accept SEPA direct debit payments with Stripe: https://stripe.com/docs/sources/sepa-debit https://stripe.com/docs/sources/sepa-debit It is possible that the compliance requirements around this are slightly higher than for accepting only Credit Cards, but looking at the documentation I don't see any indication of this. Further, credit/debit card payments are subject to SCA whereas direct debit is exempt from SCA if the mandate is given directly to the payee without involvement of their PSP.
        logifail 5y ago
        > If I have your IBAN [..] Bank account details aren't typically regarded as (worth keeping) secret, to the extent that many businesses are happy to stick their IBAN on their website. Credit card details, on the other hand, aren't ever published in this way.

charsi 5y ago

In India having somebody's bank details is not enough to debit it. Many business post their full account numbers and IFSC codes (sort of like a sort code) but with that info people can only send money into their account.