4 ms·

The EU is no different with regards to movement. Just consider public health care in say Norway and in Bulgaria. Yeah it's financed indirectly by public funding

The EU is no different with regards to movement. Just consider public health care in say Norway and in Bulgaria. Yeah it's financed indirectly by public funding but the quality can be terrible. In Croatia (where I'm from) you will regularly wait for 6+ months on life altering procedures and tests. And the public health system is in a constant crisis because of underfunding and overuse - just a few months ago drug suppliers cut off a few big public hospitals because the debt was insane (and the entire system is operating with billions of debt rolling over for years). The upside is because of such huge disparities in standard of living, if you can work remotely you can afford to use all private healthcare that's actually decent and affordable by western standards (it's built for medical tourism for western countries).

StreamBright 5y ago
For those who never experienced state run healthcare it sounds like an amazing idea. It is free! It is for all! Amazing. I usually ask my friends from the US how much do they like the service at DMV. Usually they hate it. So you want your healthcare to be run as DMV? Healthcare is great when you have a choice. The private healthcare industry is booming in Easter Europe now because there are people who can afford it. The state run hospitals are the last thing that are a monopoly, so it remains very badly managed, inefficient and extremely dangerous. I have lost many relatives in such institutions, because of infections due to lack of cleaning or hospital staff ignoring basic things. I think based on statistics the best option is private healthcare with state sponsored minimum insurance, something similar to the Dutch way.
- kpmah 5y ago
  The NHS is one of the most efficient health systems in the world.
  - StreamBright 5y ago
    And? What is your point? The Dutch is also one of the best. Singapore too. You can bring examples pro contra for both types. I think the regulation that makes a healthcare good or bad, not that it is private or public. Many public healthcares are in Eastern Europe are bad. Some private healthcares are also bad. I still think that a combination of private and public offering is probably the best with regulation being the QA. My previous comment was to point out that public healthcares can be bad, if it was not clear. Many of my friends do not want to have any nuanced discussion just, public good, private bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands
    - pelorat 5y ago
      > The Dutch is also one of the best. Sure, once you get passed the useless home doctor (huisarts).
      - StreamBright 5y ago
        Well yes, but that is not a real problem.
    - midasuni 5y ago
      Holland spends 20% more on health per capita than the Uk
      - StreamBright 5y ago
        20% more of what?
        midasuni 5y ago
        Money
  - Nimitz14 5y ago
    The NHS is probably the worst health care system in the developed world.
    - simonbarker87 5y ago
      Hahahahahaha! It really really isn’t, it’s a national treasure and it’s amazing how well it runs given how numerous governments have underfunded it. Every study on international healthcare shows the NHS is near the top in every category and once you factor in the cost per person it’s the top in the world. If you have a life threatening issue you will be seen and treated as well on the NHS as anywhere in the US, EXCEPT it won’t matter if you’re rich or poor, you’ll get the same treatment and it will work out at a literal fraction of the cost to the tax payer - insurance based and tax payer based are basically the same (cost is distributed over everyone contributing) except the government don’t arbitrarily say pay xxx thousand and the stress of “how to pay for this” is removed meaning people can focus on recovery and not on making ends meet.
      - 238475235243 5y ago
        In Soviet Russia, grain farming is national treasure. Iz best in World! Once you factor in per-person free labor, is most top in the world! Everyone is treated same in Soviet collective farm, won't matter if you're rich or poor! Anyway. Some of us have been through the NHS a few times. I remember is was kind of ok under the Blair funding, not so great before or after.
      - Nimitz14 5y ago
        > If you have a life threatening issue you will be seen and treated as well on the NHS as anywhere in the US That's just wrong. Try actually talking with a UK doctor about their experience instead of blindly following Labour dogma. They don't have the equipment to provide the level of care an American or Swiss hospital can.
        simonbarker87 5y ago
        I have 5 friends who are doctors as I lived with medics at uni and it’s not “just wrong”. It’s not labour dogma it’s a fact that the NHS is excellent and there are numerous international studies that prove that. The pinnacle of medical care in the US is better but only if you can afford it through your insurance or being rich, in the uk it is available for all
  - developer93 5y ago
    Although it's been underfunded for decades now. But even the private healthcare in UK is waaay more affordable than in US. The free healthcare creates a price anchor (because if you can't afford it you can have the less shiny but free version, and still not die)
techrat 5y ago
>In Croatia (where I'm from) you will regularly wait for 6+ months on life altering procedures and tests. Anecdote meet anecdote: I had to wait over a year for life altering surgery. My first test after becoming a candidate was over 6 months out. I'm in the US.
- reader_mode 5y ago
  That sounds like a donor list thing ? I'm talking about more day to day stuff. Like recently my friend had a seizure while driving, thankfully he was at a red light, but lost his licence etc. He had to wait 2 and a half months for diagnostic scans. He went private and got it done in a week. Other friend had herniated disk, 6 months till his appointment with a specialist. Also went private and got surgery done in a month or so.
  - techrat 5y ago
    Not a donor list thing. Had to wait months for scans, referrals and tests. All private.
    - reader_mode 5y ago
      Sorry didn't understand candidate part. Anyway - yeah I have no doubt private systems can get overloaded too, here if you have the money you have access to really good private system and low wait times, going public is guaranteed waiting list.
      - midasuni 5y ago
        In the US if you have money going private is the waiting list and you can’t jump the queue as everyone else has already paid.
        reader_mode 5y ago
        Sounds like a bad deal, might be worth looking into medical tourism.
allendoerfer 5y ago
It‘s a little bit unfair to use Croatia and compare it to the US. Health care is still national in the EU. It makes sense for a way poorer country to have a worse system. Let’s see how the Croatian system will be, once the overall standard of living has caught up.
- reader_mode 5y ago
  But that's the part people don't often realise. They talk about the richest countries in EU while ingoring the poor, reality is EU has way more inequality and variability between countries. And it's not just poor countries that have problem with overloaded public healthcare, it's a gradient.
marvin 5y ago
Norway's public healthcare isn't terrible at all. There are some painful cases where a well-insured US individual would get better treatment, and there are frequently waiting lines of a few months, but for the vast majority it works quite well. There are private-sector providers for taking up the slack if you can pay and the public sector drags its feet. The cost generally matches what the treatment costs to produce. I recently had the choice between paying $3000 to get a novel treatment procedure done in Belgium on short notice, or pay $400 for two private consultations, leading to a referral to the public system with 6 months of waiting to get it done through the public system here. Went for the latter.
midasuni 5y ago
It’s not about moving country, it’s about loving jobs. Does your healthcare rely on your job in Croatia?

StreamBright 5y ago

For those who never experienced state run healthcare it sounds like an amazing idea. It is free! It is for all! Amazing. I usually ask my friends from the US how much do they like the service at DMV. Usually they hate it. So you want your healthcare to be run as DMV? Healthcare is great when you have a choice. The private healthcare industry is booming in Easter Europe now because there are people who can afford it. The state run hospitals are the last thing that are a monopoly, so it remains very badly managed, inefficient and extremely dangerous. I have lost many relatives in such institutions, because of infections due to lack of cleaning or hospital staff ignoring basic things. I think based on statistics the best option is private healthcare with state sponsored minimum insurance, something similar to the Dutch way.

kpmah 5y ago
The NHS is one of the most efficient health systems in the world.
- StreamBright 5y ago
  And? What is your point? The Dutch is also one of the best. Singapore too. You can bring examples pro contra for both types. I think the regulation that makes a healthcare good or bad, not that it is private or public. Many public healthcares are in Eastern Europe are bad. Some private healthcares are also bad. I still think that a combination of private and public offering is probably the best with regulation being the QA. My previous comment was to point out that public healthcares can be bad, if it was not clear. Many of my friends do not want to have any nuanced discussion just, public good, private bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands
  - pelorat 5y ago
    > The Dutch is also one of the best. Sure, once you get passed the useless home doctor (huisarts).
    - StreamBright 5y ago
      Well yes, but that is not a real problem.
  - midasuni 5y ago
    Holland spends 20% more on health per capita than the Uk
    - StreamBright 5y ago
      20% more of what?
      - midasuni 5y ago
        Money
- Nimitz14 5y ago
  The NHS is probably the worst health care system in the developed world.
  - simonbarker87 5y ago
    Hahahahahaha! It really really isn’t, it’s a national treasure and it’s amazing how well it runs given how numerous governments have underfunded it. Every study on international healthcare shows the NHS is near the top in every category and once you factor in the cost per person it’s the top in the world. If you have a life threatening issue you will be seen and treated as well on the NHS as anywhere in the US, EXCEPT it won’t matter if you’re rich or poor, you’ll get the same treatment and it will work out at a literal fraction of the cost to the tax payer - insurance based and tax payer based are basically the same (cost is distributed over everyone contributing) except the government don’t arbitrarily say pay xxx thousand and the stress of “how to pay for this” is removed meaning people can focus on recovery and not on making ends meet.
    - 238475235243 5y ago
      In Soviet Russia, grain farming is national treasure. Iz best in World! Once you factor in per-person free labor, is most top in the world! Everyone is treated same in Soviet collective farm, won't matter if you're rich or poor! Anyway. Some of us have been through the NHS a few times. I remember is was kind of ok under the Blair funding, not so great before or after.
    - Nimitz14 5y ago
      > If you have a life threatening issue you will be seen and treated as well on the NHS as anywhere in the US That's just wrong. Try actually talking with a UK doctor about their experience instead of blindly following Labour dogma. They don't have the equipment to provide the level of care an American or Swiss hospital can.
      - simonbarker87 5y ago
        I have 5 friends who are doctors as I lived with medics at uni and it’s not “just wrong”. It’s not labour dogma it’s a fact that the NHS is excellent and there are numerous international studies that prove that. The pinnacle of medical care in the US is better but only if you can afford it through your insurance or being rich, in the uk it is available for all
- developer93 5y ago
  Although it's been underfunded for decades now. But even the private healthcare in UK is waaay more affordable than in US. The free healthcare creates a price anchor (because if you can't afford it you can have the less shiny but free version, and still not die)

techrat 5y ago

>In Croatia (where I'm from) you will regularly wait for 6+ months on life altering procedures and tests. Anecdote meet anecdote: I had to wait over a year for life altering surgery. My first test after becoming a candidate was over 6 months out. I'm in the US.

reader_mode 5y ago
That sounds like a donor list thing ? I'm talking about more day to day stuff. Like recently my friend had a seizure while driving, thankfully he was at a red light, but lost his licence etc. He had to wait 2 and a half months for diagnostic scans. He went private and got it done in a week. Other friend had herniated disk, 6 months till his appointment with a specialist. Also went private and got surgery done in a month or so.
- techrat 5y ago
  Not a donor list thing. Had to wait months for scans, referrals and tests. All private.
  - reader_mode 5y ago
    Sorry didn't understand candidate part. Anyway - yeah I have no doubt private systems can get overloaded too, here if you have the money you have access to really good private system and low wait times, going public is guaranteed waiting list.
    - midasuni 5y ago
      In the US if you have money going private is the waiting list and you can’t jump the queue as everyone else has already paid.
      - reader_mode 5y ago
        Sounds like a bad deal, might be worth looking into medical tourism.

allendoerfer 5y ago

It‘s a little bit unfair to use Croatia and compare it to the US. Health care is still national in the EU. It makes sense for a way poorer country to have a worse system. Let’s see how the Croatian system will be, once the overall standard of living has caught up.

reader_mode 5y ago
But that's the part people don't often realise. They talk about the richest countries in EU while ingoring the poor, reality is EU has way more inequality and variability between countries. And it's not just poor countries that have problem with overloaded public healthcare, it's a gradient.

marvin 5y ago

Norway's public healthcare isn't terrible at all. There are some painful cases where a well-insured US individual would get better treatment, and there are frequently waiting lines of a few months, but for the vast majority it works quite well. There are private-sector providers for taking up the slack if you can pay and the public sector drags its feet. The cost generally matches what the treatment costs to produce. I recently had the choice between paying $3000 to get a novel treatment procedure done in Belgium on short notice, or pay $400 for two private consultations, leading to a referral to the public system with 6 months of waiting to get it done through the public system here. Went for the latter.

midasuni 5y ago

It’s not about moving country, it’s about loving jobs. Does your healthcare rely on your job in Croatia?