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> They are arguing that elite institution's goal is to prepare entry into polite society not to provide a liberal education. Not quite what I'm getting at. My

by zumu 5y ago

> They are arguing that elite institution's goal is to prepare entry into polite society not to provide a liberal education. Not quite what I'm getting at. My point is more that the value proposition of the undergraduate programs of Ivy Leagues is partly the elite social circle you buy into. Secondly, some of these ideas of "fixing" Ivy League admissions would just send those circles elsewhere, because rich families send their kids to schools with the children of other rich families. This tight coupling of social and economic class is the real issue and radically changing a few schools' admission policies isn't going to dismantle that.

rkk3 5y ago
> Not quite what I'm getting at. My point is more that the value proposition of the undergraduate programs of Ivy Leagues is partly the elite social circle you buy into. Being trained for an elite social circle is the entire value proposition of a finishing school, not sure where you see a disagreement. > Secondly, some of these ideas of "fixing" Ivy League admissions would just send those circles elsewhere, because rich families send their kids to schools with the children of other rich families. These days it's less about meeting your spouse and more a gateway to future income and prestige opportunities; IB, MGMT Consulting, Big Tech or to Law School (Politics). Those tracks and opportunities will still be there and be attractive if more poor people were admitted.
- zumu 5y ago
  > These days it's less about meeting your spouse and more a gateway to future income and prestige opportunities; IB, MGMT Consulting, Big Tech or to Law School (Politics). Those tracks and opportunities will still be there and be attractive if more poor people were admitted. Unless there are specific reforms to talk about it's hard to argue further. However, clearly the "Ivy League Cartel" is colluding to limit enrollment of poorer people.
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  >Being trained for an elite social circle is the entire value proposition of a finishing school, not sure where you see a disagreement. Gaining access to elite social circles is not the same thing as being trained for those circles. There are plenty of institutions that enable elite networking that have nothing to do with finishing school, so it's a false equivalence.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > Gaining access to elite social circles is not the same thing as being trained for those circles. Sure but this is pedantic and both are aspects of a finishing school or elite university...
    - SantalBlush 5y ago
      It's not pedantic at all, because the two are not even close. You basically just put words into the other poster's mouth.

by zumu 5y ago

rkk3 5y ago

> Not quite what I'm getting at. My point is more that the value proposition of the undergraduate programs of Ivy Leagues is partly the elite social circle you buy into. Being trained for an elite social circle is the entire value proposition of a finishing school, not sure where you see a disagreement. > Secondly, some of these ideas of "fixing" Ivy League admissions would just send those circles elsewhere, because rich families send their kids to schools with the children of other rich families. These days it's less about meeting your spouse and more a gateway to future income and prestige opportunities; IB, MGMT Consulting, Big Tech or to Law School (Politics). Those tracks and opportunities will still be there and be attractive if more poor people were admitted.

zumu 5y ago
> These days it's less about meeting your spouse and more a gateway to future income and prestige opportunities; IB, MGMT Consulting, Big Tech or to Law School (Politics). Those tracks and opportunities will still be there and be attractive if more poor people were admitted. Unless there are specific reforms to talk about it's hard to argue further. However, clearly the "Ivy League Cartel" is colluding to limit enrollment of poorer people.
SantalBlush 5y ago
>Being trained for an elite social circle is the entire value proposition of a finishing school, not sure where you see a disagreement. Gaining access to elite social circles is not the same thing as being trained for those circles. There are plenty of institutions that enable elite networking that have nothing to do with finishing school, so it's a false equivalence.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > Gaining access to elite social circles is not the same thing as being trained for those circles. Sure but this is pedantic and both are aspects of a finishing school or elite university...
  - SantalBlush 5y ago
    It's not pedantic at all, because the two are not even close. You basically just put words into the other poster's mouth.