4 ms·

> Especially a problem because for almost all men a career and supporting family (maybe the hardest thing to figure out in life) is non optional... What do you

> Especially a problem because for almost all men a career and supporting family (maybe the hardest thing to figure out in life) is non optional... What do you mean? Of course those are optional. If you don't want a career, you're not going to have one. If you don't want to get married and support a family, then you don't have to. I mean, "saddle up to a breadwinner" is an extremely demeaning thing to say about a whole class of people. The reality is that men dominate all desirable, successful professions, so the probability of a man "saddling up" to a woman that makes significantly more than him is very small.

exporectomy 5y ago
Without a career or at least some sort of good job, most men are extremely unattractive as long term partners for women. They can't just find a wife to support them while they look after the kids. So they'll end up without a career and without a family, which can be a very sad existence. For women, families are easier to come by regardless of career status.
- throw737858 5y ago
  Imagine some people retire in peace at 50. What a sad, sad, pathetic existence :)
  - exporectomy 5y ago
    Retirement is often sad and pathetic.
    - graphtradr 5y ago
      Exactly. I am almost 50 myself. Retire and do what? Wait do die? Drink wine all day and wait to die? There isn't much to me that is worth doing that wouldn't produce some kind of income. Still so much I want to do yet, I don't have time for retirement.
      - kwdc 5y ago
        Why retire at all? Depending on what you want to do, why not just do it for as long as you can?
      - SyzygistSix 5y ago
        Ride bicycles and/or motorcycles. Travel. Hike. Read. Learn things. Volunteer. Cooking is fun. Gardening as well. I'm at a loss for how people can get bored and I don't even game or watch much in the way of movies or television. I think for some people they get attuned to work so much that they don't remember what life is like without it.
        ryandrake 5y ago
        Totally agree. I don’t think I’ve been bored since I was a teenager. Every day I think to myself, all the things I could do with extra time in the day, if I didn’t have to work for a living. I am counting down the days until I retire! My nightmare actually is I die the day after I retire, just as I’m getting ready to start living my life!
        exporectomy 5y ago
        Have you actually experienced a long period (year or more) with no obligations like work or school? It's much easier to be motivated when you're busy than when there's no real need for your effort or deadline for anything. I know some people manage great and have very active retirements but some just fade into passivity. Keep an eye out for the danger warned by John Mellencamp - "Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone".
        SyzygistSix 5y ago
        >Have you actually experienced a long period (year or more) with no obligations like work or school? I have. And have had no problems filling it with the above activities. My folks are retired and don't seem to be having much trouble finding creative projects and enjoyable things to do, like hiking and discovering new things. Honestly I thought my dad would be a prime candidate for the type who gets so used to chasing the rabbit that they have no idea what to do once they retire. I'm glad to see that isn't the case.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
mattparcens 5y ago
Potentially demeaning nomenclature aside, do men and women have a differential opportunity to [better phrase], and if not, is this fair? And while it might be nice for the men who dominate all desirable, successful professions, does this help the median man? They're all individuals, after all.
- cjohnson318 5y ago
  Based on my experience, I do not believe women have a better or easier "differential opportunity" when it comes to finding a partner and starting a family than men. I think "everything is easier for women because they're sexy" is an old trope that should be put to rest. Women on the whole do not want to "be sexy" any more, or less, than men do. I think women want to be taken seriously, and on their own terms, just like men. > And while it might be nice for the men who dominate all desirable, successful professions, does this help the median man? They're all individuals, after all. No, it doesn't. The fact that Jeff Bezos is a man or a woman does not affect my life at all. But, as a man, I have an easier time networking and working with other men in my field.
  - citizenpaul 5y ago
    >think "everything is easier for women because they're sexy" is an old trope Pretending that this is a trope is harmful to discussion. Women can easily make it to 30yo without ever personally having to deal with solving any problems they have if they are pretty. This does not however mean women don't have legit problems. However the gap of assistance options men have vs women is incredibly vast.
    - nasmorn 5y ago
      Men are not even helped if they are hot. My wife will often not acknowledge the physical qualities of men she thinks little of. As if they are not hot just because they are assholes. Women are strange like that often. Men might decide a woman is not as hot as she is crazy but they will not simply pretend she is not hot.
    - 5y ago
prestigious 5y ago
You are going to have to back up men dominate all desirable successful professions… more women doctors are being produced than men for instance
- cjohnson318 5y ago
  Here's an excerpt from the first hit on Google for "percentage of fortune 500 companies run by women". > During the first quarter of 2021, 41 women will lead Fortune 500 companies. That’s just 8.2 percent, but an improvement from the 33 companies in 2019 and 24 in 2018. Going back 20 years, there were just two companies on the list that were run by women, according to Fortune. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/record-number-women-took-over-fortune-500-companies-2020-n1252491 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/record-number... There's more women doctors, but that percentage hovers around 35%, which is about the same as the number of women in leadership positions in U.S. federal and state government.
  - wahern 5y ago
    Women constitute the majority of both medical students and law students in the United States. See https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/majority-us-medical-students-are-women-new-data-show https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/majority-u... and https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2019/03/pisarcik-women-outnumber-men-in-law-school/ https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2019/03/pisarcik-women-out... Although that won't necessarily translate to a majority of practitioners because women are much more likely to suspend or leave a career for family. There's a similar, albeit trailing, trend for business school. https://www.mba.com/information-and-news/research-and-data/why-women-are-applying https://www.mba.com/information-and-news/research-and-data/w...
  - mahkeiro 5y ago
    That's purely a US figure. In western Europe, 60% of medical graduate are women (It's almost 66% in my country). Then more women drop out of this carrer path because they can, not because they are forced out. If I take a personal example, when studying at my university (in the top 15 QS global ranking), I had 6 girl friends that studied different fields, from physics to material science. Only one of them is still an engineer today. All by choice are now, yoga teachers, home consultant, mom at home, school teacher, etc. For my male friends maybe one decided to do something completely unrelated. I'm getting more and more suspicious about this world (at least in Europe) is unequal because of men. Women are making choice too.
mdorazio 5y ago
Did you really just call out the parent comment for being demeaning when you yourself are sitting here saying that women, as a group, choose undesirable and unsuccessful professions? Please stop.
- cjohnson318 5y ago
  I did not say that "women, as a group, choose undesirable and unsuccessful professions". I would say that as a group, women are doing the best they can, it is just that men tend to have greater opportunities than women, even though the capabilities of women and men are comparable. I believe that women have a harder, longer road to professional success in our society, and that this is plainly evident.

exporectomy 5y ago

Without a career or at least some sort of good job, most men are extremely unattractive as long term partners for women. They can't just find a wife to support them while they look after the kids. So they'll end up without a career and without a family, which can be a very sad existence. For women, families are easier to come by regardless of career status.

throw737858 5y ago
Imagine some people retire in peace at 50. What a sad, sad, pathetic existence :)
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Retirement is often sad and pathetic.
  - graphtradr 5y ago
    Exactly. I am almost 50 myself. Retire and do what? Wait do die? Drink wine all day and wait to die? There isn't much to me that is worth doing that wouldn't produce some kind of income. Still so much I want to do yet, I don't have time for retirement.
    - kwdc 5y ago
      Why retire at all? Depending on what you want to do, why not just do it for as long as you can?
    - SyzygistSix 5y ago
      Ride bicycles and/or motorcycles. Travel. Hike. Read. Learn things. Volunteer. Cooking is fun. Gardening as well. I'm at a loss for how people can get bored and I don't even game or watch much in the way of movies or television. I think for some people they get attuned to work so much that they don't remember what life is like without it.
      - ryandrake 5y ago
        Totally agree. I don’t think I’ve been bored since I was a teenager. Every day I think to myself, all the things I could do with extra time in the day, if I didn’t have to work for a living. I am counting down the days until I retire! My nightmare actually is I die the day after I retire, just as I’m getting ready to start living my life!
        exporectomy 5y ago
        Have you actually experienced a long period (year or more) with no obligations like work or school? It's much easier to be motivated when you're busy than when there's no real need for your effort or deadline for anything. I know some people manage great and have very active retirements but some just fade into passivity. Keep an eye out for the danger warned by John Mellencamp - "Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone".
        SyzygistSix 5y ago
        >Have you actually experienced a long period (year or more) with no obligations like work or school? I have. And have had no problems filling it with the above activities. My folks are retired and don't seem to be having much trouble finding creative projects and enjoyable things to do, like hiking and discovering new things. Honestly I thought my dad would be a prime candidate for the type who gets so used to chasing the rabbit that they have no idea what to do once they retire. I'm glad to see that isn't the case.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

mattparcens 5y ago

Potentially demeaning nomenclature aside, do men and women have a differential opportunity to [better phrase], and if not, is this fair? And while it might be nice for the men who dominate all desirable, successful professions, does this help the median man? They're all individuals, after all.

cjohnson318 5y ago
Based on my experience, I do not believe women have a better or easier "differential opportunity" when it comes to finding a partner and starting a family than men. I think "everything is easier for women because they're sexy" is an old trope that should be put to rest. Women on the whole do not want to "be sexy" any more, or less, than men do. I think women want to be taken seriously, and on their own terms, just like men. > And while it might be nice for the men who dominate all desirable, successful professions, does this help the median man? They're all individuals, after all. No, it doesn't. The fact that Jeff Bezos is a man or a woman does not affect my life at all. But, as a man, I have an easier time networking and working with other men in my field.
- citizenpaul 5y ago
  >think "everything is easier for women because they're sexy" is an old trope Pretending that this is a trope is harmful to discussion. Women can easily make it to 30yo without ever personally having to deal with solving any problems they have if they are pretty. This does not however mean women don't have legit problems. However the gap of assistance options men have vs women is incredibly vast.
  - nasmorn 5y ago
    Men are not even helped if they are hot. My wife will often not acknowledge the physical qualities of men she thinks little of. As if they are not hot just because they are assholes. Women are strange like that often. Men might decide a woman is not as hot as she is crazy but they will not simply pretend she is not hot.
  - 5y ago

prestigious 5y ago

You are going to have to back up men dominate all desirable successful professions… more women doctors are being produced than men for instance

cjohnson318 5y ago
Here's an excerpt from the first hit on Google for "percentage of fortune 500 companies run by women". > During the first quarter of 2021, 41 women will lead Fortune 500 companies. That’s just 8.2 percent, but an improvement from the 33 companies in 2019 and 24 in 2018. Going back 20 years, there were just two companies on the list that were run by women, according to Fortune. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/record-number-women-took-over-fortune-500-companies-2020-n1252491 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/record-number... There's more women doctors, but that percentage hovers around 35%, which is about the same as the number of women in leadership positions in U.S. federal and state government.
- wahern 5y ago
  Women constitute the majority of both medical students and law students in the United States. See https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/majority-us-medical-students-are-women-new-data-show https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/majority-u... and https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2019/03/pisarcik-women-outnumber-men-in-law-school/ https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2019/03/pisarcik-women-out... Although that won't necessarily translate to a majority of practitioners because women are much more likely to suspend or leave a career for family. There's a similar, albeit trailing, trend for business school. https://www.mba.com/information-and-news/research-and-data/why-women-are-applying https://www.mba.com/information-and-news/research-and-data/w...
- mahkeiro 5y ago
  That's purely a US figure. In western Europe, 60% of medical graduate are women (It's almost 66% in my country). Then more women drop out of this carrer path because they can, not because they are forced out. If I take a personal example, when studying at my university (in the top 15 QS global ranking), I had 6 girl friends that studied different fields, from physics to material science. Only one of them is still an engineer today. All by choice are now, yoga teachers, home consultant, mom at home, school teacher, etc. For my male friends maybe one decided to do something completely unrelated. I'm getting more and more suspicious about this world (at least in Europe) is unequal because of men. Women are making choice too.

mdorazio 5y ago

Did you really just call out the parent comment for being demeaning when you yourself are sitting here saying that women, as a group, choose undesirable and unsuccessful professions? Please stop.

cjohnson318 5y ago
I did not say that "women, as a group, choose undesirable and unsuccessful professions". I would say that as a group, women are doing the best they can, it is just that men tend to have greater opportunities than women, even though the capabilities of women and men are comparable. I believe that women have a harder, longer road to professional success in our society, and that this is plainly evident.