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I am from India and for the first 8-10 years of my post-college life I drank all the "glory" reporting of the American style of doing business. I tried doing it

I am from India and for the first 8-10 years of my post-college life I drank all the "glory" reporting of the American style of doing business. I tried doing it myself. I fell apart, suffered silently for years. Moved to Germany, went through counseling at the end of that period. Learnt that life is a lot more than silly startup games. No matter what anyone tells me, I have seen it myself first hand - I want a happier life, not a fatter paycheck. The average multi-million $ enterprise company creates CRUD apps and sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down. I came back to India and started thinking of my life in 10, 20, 30 year terms. I live in a village in the Himalayas and even though I still struggle as I get influenced by the media, I take steps back, look at the gorgeous mountains in front of me and smile. I am happy, happier than I even have been. I focus on what matters to me - empowering people, open source software, and building a sustainable business. I am never doing the crazy startup life again. Period.

systemvoltage 5y ago
I am sorry you had such an experience. Startup life has pros and cons, and situationally varied. I've worked on several startup ventures of my own and nothing in the world is more satisfying than "skin in the game". It feels real and impactful. I didn't work more than 8-10 hours a day. People using your products and gratification of the fact that you/your-team built is so much more real to me. Friendships I've formed in these years are the strongest bonds of my life and have kept me mentally in better state than otherwise toiling in a FAANG job. > The average multi-million $ enterprise company creates CRUD apps and sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down. Perhaps, I suggest working on something else other than CRUD apps? That sounds horrible. Startups can vary from Space industry to biotech, from defense to green tech. > I am happy, happier than I even have been. I focus on what matters to me - empowering people, open source software, and building a sustainable business. I am never doing the crazy startup life again. Period. Not all startup lives are like this. I guess we have a different definition of startup life. Startups are empowering people, building open source software and building sustainable businesses. Overall, there is a huge spectrum of startups you can work on - from shitty CRUD apps to Boston Dynamics.
- pm90 5y ago
  It may not be useful to look at exceptions, rather let’s look at the median. Most startups fail, most people that work at startups get burned out. If people choose to engage in these startups, I hope they do so with open eyes.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    I agree about most startups fail. I wanted to share my perspective that's totally opposite of OPs for those who are thinking about working for startups or becoming founders.
- brainless 5y ago
  I think you do not understand. I have more "skin" in the game than you might think. I am a founder who understands business, finance, talks to users, takes support tickets, can talk to investors, and write in 3 different programming languages, setup the entire software pipeline myself. I am more hands-on than you might have seen around. Trust me on that. Your definition of "skin" does not need to be mine. I want to have impact, for those who are not being taken care of. I am tired of investor led companies making the rich richer. I do not belong in that world.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    There are plenty of startups that are bootstrapped and without investor pressure: https://www.indiehackers.com/ https://www.indiehackers.com/
    - brainless 5y ago
      Yes I totally agree and I am a fan of Courtland Allen or Rob Walling. They are not mainstream and in my opinion that is where it is going wrong. We have too much emphasis from multi-million $ invested (and mostly non-sustainable) businesses. The success ratio for ridiculously invested startups can be tiny, and yet the investor will make money on the unicorns that pass the great filter. The others will not be heard of, will suffer. We celebrate the exceptions and ignore what an alternative could be if sustainable/profitable smaller businesses were the norm. A healthier society where we would normalize 8 hours of sleep every day, or spending time with neighbors, for our entire adult lives to start with.
dogman144 5y ago
> sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down. Yeah this is the core of it. Most American devs realize this way too late, and as a result I think it powers the activism at US companies. Later in the game, they realize it’s all some form of adtech/sales/so on all the way down, so want to inject new meaning into their employment narrative. I don’t have an answer for you other than agreeing with you. If you’re ok not looking for deep meaning through work, tech can present compensation and work life balance fo basically check out any direction of meaning fulfillment you like. Just… what to do? I empathize a lot. Fwiw, my loose solution is two approaches: - working in tech companies or open source projects that really present something different as an industry outlook if things work out. Crypto/btc open source comes to mind. - or, seek out the really high comp tech jobs that are non-FAANG, and buy a new life basically after a few years there and saving.
- brainless 5y ago
  I agree with the two approaches. I have never worked with FAANG, but I have worked in adtech and I felt suffocated. Open source (or source available to keep big vultures away) can surely work as a sustainable business model, just that this takes longer to develop. If I chose to not have lock-in in my products, to encourage people to self-host and own their platform/data, of course it will not allow me to scale to unicorn status. But that is not my target. I would rather see people use my product, pay a fee voluntarily, and not be locked-in.
tagfowufe 5y ago
My first comment ever here is for thanking you for posting these words. I find them truly educational and eerily reassuring. I'm starting my career in this whole world after two years at a really innovative community college, and I've always resonated with your attitude, albeit I don't see it verbalized often enough on the Net.
- brainless 5y ago
  I feel honored. I do not think I have done anything to get this though. I have gone through a very rough period where I felt an imposter, a loser and that I would never amount to anything. I was in mild-depression for years, the peer-pressure created by this constant chase is so horrible, yet founders still feel ashamed to talk about it. So I am simply sharing it openly.

systemvoltage 5y ago

I am sorry you had such an experience. Startup life has pros and cons, and situationally varied. I've worked on several startup ventures of my own and nothing in the world is more satisfying than "skin in the game". It feels real and impactful. I didn't work more than 8-10 hours a day. People using your products and gratification of the fact that you/your-team built is so much more real to me. Friendships I've formed in these years are the strongest bonds of my life and have kept me mentally in better state than otherwise toiling in a FAANG job. > The average multi-million $ enterprise company creates CRUD apps and sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down. Perhaps, I suggest working on something else other than CRUD apps? That sounds horrible. Startups can vary from Space industry to biotech, from defense to green tech. > I am happy, happier than I even have been. I focus on what matters to me - empowering people, open source software, and building a sustainable business. I am never doing the crazy startup life again. Period. Not all startup lives are like this. I guess we have a different definition of startup life. Startups are empowering people, building open source software and building sustainable businesses. Overall, there is a huge spectrum of startups you can work on - from shitty CRUD apps to Boston Dynamics.

pm90 5y ago
It may not be useful to look at exceptions, rather let’s look at the median. Most startups fail, most people that work at startups get burned out. If people choose to engage in these startups, I hope they do so with open eyes.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  I agree about most startups fail. I wanted to share my perspective that's totally opposite of OPs for those who are thinking about working for startups or becoming founders.
brainless 5y ago
I think you do not understand. I have more "skin" in the game than you might think. I am a founder who understands business, finance, talks to users, takes support tickets, can talk to investors, and write in 3 different programming languages, setup the entire software pipeline myself. I am more hands-on than you might have seen around. Trust me on that. Your definition of "skin" does not need to be mine. I want to have impact, for those who are not being taken care of. I am tired of investor led companies making the rich richer. I do not belong in that world.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  There are plenty of startups that are bootstrapped and without investor pressure: https://www.indiehackers.com/ https://www.indiehackers.com/
  - brainless 5y ago
    Yes I totally agree and I am a fan of Courtland Allen or Rob Walling. They are not mainstream and in my opinion that is where it is going wrong. We have too much emphasis from multi-million $ invested (and mostly non-sustainable) businesses. The success ratio for ridiculously invested startups can be tiny, and yet the investor will make money on the unicorns that pass the great filter. The others will not be heard of, will suffer. We celebrate the exceptions and ignore what an alternative could be if sustainable/profitable smaller businesses were the norm. A healthier society where we would normalize 8 hours of sleep every day, or spending time with neighbors, for our entire adult lives to start with.

dogman144 5y ago

> sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down. Yeah this is the core of it. Most American devs realize this way too late, and as a result I think it powers the activism at US companies. Later in the game, they realize it’s all some form of adtech/sales/so on all the way down, so want to inject new meaning into their employment narrative. I don’t have an answer for you other than agreeing with you. If you’re ok not looking for deep meaning through work, tech can present compensation and work life balance fo basically check out any direction of meaning fulfillment you like. Just… what to do? I empathize a lot. Fwiw, my loose solution is two approaches: - working in tech companies or open source projects that really present something different as an industry outlook if things work out. Crypto/btc open source comes to mind. - or, seek out the really high comp tech jobs that are non-FAANG, and buy a new life basically after a few years there and saving.

brainless 5y ago
I agree with the two approaches. I have never worked with FAANG, but I have worked in adtech and I felt suffocated. Open source (or source available to keep big vultures away) can surely work as a sustainable business model, just that this takes longer to develop. If I chose to not have lock-in in my products, to encourage people to self-host and own their platform/data, of course it will not allow me to scale to unicorn status. But that is not my target. I would rather see people use my product, pay a fee voluntarily, and not be locked-in.

tagfowufe 5y ago

My first comment ever here is for thanking you for posting these words. I find them truly educational and eerily reassuring. I'm starting my career in this whole world after two years at a really innovative community college, and I've always resonated with your attitude, albeit I don't see it verbalized often enough on the Net.

brainless 5y ago
I feel honored. I do not think I have done anything to get this though. I have gone through a very rough period where I felt an imposter, a loser and that I would never amount to anything. I was in mild-depression for years, the peer-pressure created by this constant chase is so horrible, yet founders still feel ashamed to talk about it. So I am simply sharing it openly.