3 ms·

In my experience[0] that's not really true. This comment[1] is pretty on the money. Being a NEET is not a vacation, and playing video games all day is often a m

In my experience[0] that's not really true. This comment[1] is pretty on the money. Being a NEET is not a vacation, and playing video games all day is often a means of avoiding confronting the realization that you're a waste of oxygen. Many have substance co-dependencies that function similarly. It's the sort of life that sounds cool as an overworked wagie but gets stale rather quickly, plus a massive helping of sunk-cost behavior justification once one realizes how hard it can be to get back in the saddle. The people in this situation I've personally known who have been in the best mental state were those who went beyond just playing games all day to do something more productive though still probably non-commercial: forum mod, fan translator, guild webmaster type of thing. Again, at least in my experience, pretty much everyone has a desire to be useful to others in some way. Wallowing in purely consumption-based activities can help at first but doesn't hold off the demons forever. --- [0] 30k hours of runescape gets one a lot of NEET acquaintances [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27479336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27479336

vsareto 5y ago
I mean, there's people who barely do any work while pulling down a decent salary, so I'm not sure who's really the bigger waste of oxygen compared to someone who sits around all day on games. (personally, I disagree with the 'waste of oxygen' viewpoint - life has innate value especially since we're the only intelligent species we know of, even if they aren't valuable in a capitalistic sense). But it's weird we prefer others being at a bullshit job over just enjoying themselves and not having to work. We'd like to think that everyone who's employed is doing some small part in helping out humanity, but that's definitely not true. >once one realizes how hard it can be to get back in the saddle. Is it really that hard though? It can be uncomfortable, sure, but if you can get past that, you're very similar to other people who decide on a later career change, start over in a new place, or are dealing with personal problems later on. The only real struggle is with yourself and being able to admit you're dealing with a problem. Once you do that, most of the stigma falls away except from the harshest critics. The idea that you're 'behind' is very outdated. You can do nothing with your life by working as well. * This is all from the USA perspective
- livueta 5y ago
  > life has innate value especially since we're the only intelligent species we know of, even if they aren't valuable in a capitalistic sense I personally agree with you in general, but I'm talking about a self-image formed through extensive socialization to the idea that work == value. Even if in some abstract sense all intelligent life is a gift, the "waste of oxygen" label starts feeling appropriate as your cohort materially advances without you. I guess I was unclear in that I wasn't going for lifestyle judgmentalism; more trying to explain the negative self-image that's easily developed given capitalist socialization and a lack of capitalist success. > It can be uncomfortable, sure, but if you can get past that... Again, I agree in general, and there's obviously a spectrum of how impacted any particular individual is going to be, but I think you're underestimating the degree of psychological scarring that can be built up over a long time in the pit. That step of admitting that you're the problem is one many fight against for years, which happens to be linked to self-deception around how fun/fulfilling the consumption-only life is. I guess I'm glad that you've got as hopeful of an outlook on this as you do, but I want to temper that a little with the understanding that "well, just go get a job lol" is akin to "well, just stop being sad lol" - in both cases there's probably a lot going on that simple willpower alone isn't going to fix.
granshaw 5y ago
And spending your life working to make other execs rich isn’t a waste of oxygen?
- livueta 5y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. Like I said, there are plenty of fulfilling non-commercial NEET-friendly outlets. I just see the game/tv spiral as almost uniquely destructive of self-esteem.
  - granshaw 5y ago
    No apology necessary :) And now after reading more of the comments, I think there are two aspects to the situation. The first is doing nothing but playing video games all day, and the second is freeloading off of others to enable this lifestyle. I don’t think we should judge the first as a flaw of character, but definitely the second IMO is deplorable. I think the “productive member of society” trope needs to die. Many jobs across all pay levels serve purposes that are bad for humanity and the individual, and more power to those who’d rather opt out of all of that, as long as they’re sustaining themselves.

vsareto 5y ago

I mean, there's people who barely do any work while pulling down a decent salary, so I'm not sure who's really the bigger waste of oxygen compared to someone who sits around all day on games. (personally, I disagree with the 'waste of oxygen' viewpoint - life has innate value especially since we're the only intelligent species we know of, even if they aren't valuable in a capitalistic sense). But it's weird we prefer others being at a bullshit job over just enjoying themselves and not having to work. We'd like to think that everyone who's employed is doing some small part in helping out humanity, but that's definitely not true. >once one realizes how hard it can be to get back in the saddle. Is it really that hard though? It can be uncomfortable, sure, but if you can get past that, you're very similar to other people who decide on a later career change, start over in a new place, or are dealing with personal problems later on. The only real struggle is with yourself and being able to admit you're dealing with a problem. Once you do that, most of the stigma falls away except from the harshest critics. The idea that you're 'behind' is very outdated. You can do nothing with your life by working as well. * This is all from the USA perspective

livueta 5y ago
> life has innate value especially since we're the only intelligent species we know of, even if they aren't valuable in a capitalistic sense I personally agree with you in general, but I'm talking about a self-image formed through extensive socialization to the idea that work == value. Even if in some abstract sense all intelligent life is a gift, the "waste of oxygen" label starts feeling appropriate as your cohort materially advances without you. I guess I was unclear in that I wasn't going for lifestyle judgmentalism; more trying to explain the negative self-image that's easily developed given capitalist socialization and a lack of capitalist success. > It can be uncomfortable, sure, but if you can get past that... Again, I agree in general, and there's obviously a spectrum of how impacted any particular individual is going to be, but I think you're underestimating the degree of psychological scarring that can be built up over a long time in the pit. That step of admitting that you're the problem is one many fight against for years, which happens to be linked to self-deception around how fun/fulfilling the consumption-only life is. I guess I'm glad that you've got as hopeful of an outlook on this as you do, but I want to temper that a little with the understanding that "well, just go get a job lol" is akin to "well, just stop being sad lol" - in both cases there's probably a lot going on that simple willpower alone isn't going to fix.

granshaw 5y ago

And spending your life working to make other execs rich isn’t a waste of oxygen?

livueta 5y ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. Like I said, there are plenty of fulfilling non-commercial NEET-friendly outlets. I just see the game/tv spiral as almost uniquely destructive of self-esteem.
- granshaw 5y ago
  No apology necessary :) And now after reading more of the comments, I think there are two aspects to the situation. The first is doing nothing but playing video games all day, and the second is freeloading off of others to enable this lifestyle. I don’t think we should judge the first as a flaw of character, but definitely the second IMO is deplorable. I think the “productive member of society” trope needs to die. Many jobs across all pay levels serve purposes that are bad for humanity and the individual, and more power to those who’d rather opt out of all of that, as long as they’re sustaining themselves.