3 ms·

My favorite insight lately comes from looking at the letter ell. Hebrew lamedh. Familiar to programmers, a 'lambda' function is a nameless function. Looking

My favorite insight lately comes from looking at the letter ell. Hebrew lamedh. Familiar to programmers, a 'lambda' function is a nameless function. Looking at a translation of the lords prayer, wondering where the word 'hallowed' came in, since it wouldn't have been part of the original language, I delved into why hallow was the substitute for sacred, and what the origins of 'sacred' were. Sacere, a set-aside area, so so something set aside is 'sacred'. To hallow something is to hold it in high regard, to respect it, to put it in another category other than the normal one. The hebrews had seven holy names and EL was one of them. Imagine if you time traveled back to that time and asked random people in the fertile crescent, who or what do you worship? They technically couldn't answer that because their beliefs told them not to say that word, but they COULD say the ____ the ____ el (blank) the the EL EL? I worship the ____ (cant say it, leave a blank) A blank? Like a hollow? A word with a separate category? A set-aside-area? Sacere. Sacred. So, our father hallowed be thy name is like saying you have a separate category for that name. What is the normal category for all the normal words? You can say them and you can write them. What is special about the 'sacred' words? You don't say them.

rsj_hn 5y ago
> Imagine if you time traveled back to that time and asked random people in the fertile crescent, who or what do you worship? They technically couldn't answer that because their beliefs told them not to say that word The tradition of not pronouncing the name YHWH is specific to rabbinic judaism and was not a feature of either temple judaism as practiced in the era of King David nor religions in the fertile crescent. Rather the opposite, as names of Gods were loudly and proudly proclaimed. We know this because of poems (which were sung outloud) composed that contain names of gods in such a way as proper pronounciaton is required for the songs to have the right rhythm and meter. (This is also how modern scholars believe the correct pronounciation is "Yahweh", e.g. that the vav was a "w" sound and the yod was a "y" sound.) In fact the very idea of a name that could be written but not spoken presupposes a tradition of reading and writing texts -- something practiced by Masoretes and Pharisees -- rather than a service consisting of songs and spoken ceremonies as performed in actual temples. It is a question as to which extra-levitical sects initially began this tradition of omitting the name in spoken pronunciation sometime during the second temple period, as it was most likely related to them not being priests and thus not considering themselves worthy to say the name, but when the priestly service ended and the temple was destroyed, guardianship of law passed to rabbinical groups focused on working with texts, and then no one was considered worthy to say the name and thus it became a general prohibition even though the royal singers singing the psalms loudly sang "Yahweh" in almost every song in daily service. But this practice of omitting the name was not shared by other semitic groups in the region, nor is it present in Arabic cultures. So let's not backpropagate that relatively modern scholarly tradition to religious practices in the fertile crescent during the dawn of civilization.
TchoBeer 5y ago
Hallowed is a very apt translation, the hebrew word קדוש (which I think is the one that means hallowed?) can also be translated as "sperated"; "separated/holy" is pretty much the dictionary definition of hallowed
jlos 5y ago
The distinction between "hallow" and "sacred" is a distinction that arises only due to the traditional of English translations. Sacere is the Latin. Lord's prayer is written in Koine Greek and uses ἁγιάζω (hagiadzo), the verbal form of ἅγιος (hagios). Hagios is the by far the most common word for "holy". While modern translations are extremely good, publishers are apparently hesitant to modify verses prone to memorization or used in liturgies (such as the Lord's prayer),
- StavrosK 5y ago
  *hagiazo, btw, a d slipped in there by accident.
danans 5y ago
> Looking at a translation of the lords prayer, wondering where the word 'hallowed' came in, Hallowed is word of Germanic origin. It has shared etymology with holy and is part of the name of the Anglo-Saxon pagan festival Halloween.

rsj_hn 5y ago

> Imagine if you time traveled back to that time and asked random people in the fertile crescent, who or what do you worship? They technically couldn't answer that because their beliefs told them not to say that word The tradition of not pronouncing the name YHWH is specific to rabbinic judaism and was not a feature of either temple judaism as practiced in the era of King David nor religions in the fertile crescent. Rather the opposite, as names of Gods were loudly and proudly proclaimed. We know this because of poems (which were sung outloud) composed that contain names of gods in such a way as proper pronounciaton is required for the songs to have the right rhythm and meter. (This is also how modern scholars believe the correct pronounciation is "Yahweh", e.g. that the vav was a "w" sound and the yod was a "y" sound.) In fact the very idea of a name that could be written but not spoken presupposes a tradition of reading and writing texts -- something practiced by Masoretes and Pharisees -- rather than a service consisting of songs and spoken ceremonies as performed in actual temples. It is a question as to which extra-levitical sects initially began this tradition of omitting the name in spoken pronunciation sometime during the second temple period, as it was most likely related to them not being priests and thus not considering themselves worthy to say the name, but when the priestly service ended and the temple was destroyed, guardianship of law passed to rabbinical groups focused on working with texts, and then no one was considered worthy to say the name and thus it became a general prohibition even though the royal singers singing the psalms loudly sang "Yahweh" in almost every song in daily service. But this practice of omitting the name was not shared by other semitic groups in the region, nor is it present in Arabic cultures. So let's not backpropagate that relatively modern scholarly tradition to religious practices in the fertile crescent during the dawn of civilization.

TchoBeer 5y ago

Hallowed is a very apt translation, the hebrew word קדוש (which I think is the one that means hallowed?) can also be translated as "sperated"; "separated/holy" is pretty much the dictionary definition of hallowed

jlos 5y ago

The distinction between "hallow" and "sacred" is a distinction that arises only due to the traditional of English translations. Sacere is the Latin. Lord's prayer is written in Koine Greek and uses ἁγιάζω (hagiadzo), the verbal form of ἅγιος (hagios). Hagios is the by far the most common word for "holy". While modern translations are extremely good, publishers are apparently hesitant to modify verses prone to memorization or used in liturgies (such as the Lord's prayer),

StavrosK 5y ago
*hagiazo, btw, a d slipped in there by accident.

danans 5y ago

> Looking at a translation of the lords prayer, wondering where the word 'hallowed' came in, Hallowed is word of Germanic origin. It has shared etymology with holy and is part of the name of the Anglo-Saxon pagan festival Halloween.