6 ms·

I say this as an Asian person: surely black folks getting disproportionately policed and killed is a bigger manifestation of institutional racism, no?

rkk3 5y ago
> surely black folks getting disproportionately policed and killed is a bigger manifestation of institutional racism Are they disproportionately killed & policed? It depends on how you cut the statistics for your narrative. As a % of population vs % of Violent Crime vs % of Homicides etc etc. This is not to say there are no benefits about going into an encounter White.
threatofrain 5y ago
https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f2c03-d500-49c6-89fc-f282013132e3.html https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f... Asians are remarkably vulnerable to dying by police. They are also extremely under-represented in the police force, unlike black Americans. In the Bay Area, police officers are paid very well. These are stepping stones to middle class membership. Also, discussions of racism in education may just completely exclude Asians, as if they aren't even worth mentioning even once. https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11...
rebelos 5y ago
You can only believe this if you've fallen for the spin perpetrated by media outlets. The number of unarmed Black civilians killed by police each year is so small that you can fit the entire list of names and details since 2014 (31 total) on a few pages of generously-spaced HTML table rows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americans_killed_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States#2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americ.... This is against approximately 10 million arrests per year and some multiple of that in total police encounters. While it's tragic that the count is nonzero, any rational person should be amazed that the incidence is so vanishingly low, given the uncertainty inherent to policing. It's truly remarkable that it isn't much much higher. I couldn't find statistics about police killings of unarmed White people, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number is higher than 31 since 2014. The only reason you think there is (or was) an epidemic of police shootings of unarmed Black people is because the media has worked very hard to maximally exploit cherrypicked cases to get you to believe that. Furthermore, Black communities are often strong advocates of retaining or even increasing police presence: > A Gallup poll conducted from June 23 to July 6 [2020] surveying more than 36,000 U.S. adults found that 61 percent of Black Americans said they'd like police to spend the same amount of time in their community, while 20 percent answered they'd like to see more police, totaling 81 percent. Just 19 percent of those polled said they wanted police to spend less time in their area. The reason for this is obvious. Persistent socioeconomic inequality has had the same devastating impact within Black communities as it has had everywhere else in the world: increased criminality.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  This is a good survey that shows the impact of availability bias on people's perceptions about this topic: https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/reports/Research-Report-CUPES-007.pdf https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/reports/Research-Rep...
  - rebelos 5y ago
    The problem is that when you sign up for a tribe, you experience an emotional obligation and social pressure to adopt its beliefs wholesale, even if that means jettisoning rationality along the way. This is an affliction that beleaguers both sides of the aisle.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  There is no nationwide effort to classify killings based on whether an individual was armed at the time. It's better to just look at killings because those are significant enough to record. https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f2c03-d500-49c6-89fc-f282013132e3.html https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f...
  - rebelos 5y ago
    The suggestion that there is some significant number of police killings that are going unreported - especially in the environment of the past several years - is categorically conspiratorial thinking. It fails the barest of sanity checks when you consider just how 'deep state' an effort would be required for that to be conducted at scale. Are there some unreported police killings? Almost certainly. Would there be enough to alter the central thrust of the above argument about the shockingly low incidence of police killings of unarmed persons relative to ~10 million arrests per year and some multiple of that in total encounters? Almost certainly not. EDIT: Poster changed the link and added a comment. The below is a response to the modified comment. > There is no nationwide effort to classify killings based on whether an individual was armed at the time. It's better to just look at killings because those are significant enough to record. Sure. You can look at the total number of police killings and not only are the numbers still shockingly low as a percentage of arrests and encounters, but there is also no overt sign of an extraordinary racial bias: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de....
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
LudwigNagasena 5y ago
Actually statistical studies usually don’t find racial discrepancies in the lethal use of force even when they don’t use control variables. However the differences exist in non-lethal use of force even when you account for various control variables (time of the day, location, income of the civilian, etc.)
blagie 5y ago
It's not a contest. You don't "fix" anti-black racism with anti-Asian or anti-white racism. Racism is wrong wherever it's found. I'm most concerned about anti-Asian racism because the problem is serious and unacknowledged. Anti-black racism is, at the very least, now acknowledged as a problem. I tend to focus my efforts where others don't.

rkk3 5y ago

> surely black folks getting disproportionately policed and killed is a bigger manifestation of institutional racism Are they disproportionately killed & policed? It depends on how you cut the statistics for your narrative. As a % of population vs % of Violent Crime vs % of Homicides etc etc. This is not to say there are no benefits about going into an encounter White.

threatofrain 5y ago

https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f2c03-d500-49c6-89fc-f282013132e3.html https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f... Asians are remarkably vulnerable to dying by police. They are also extremely under-represented in the police force, unlike black Americans. In the Bay Area, police officers are paid very well. These are stepping stones to middle class membership. Also, discussions of racism in education may just completely exclude Asians, as if they aren't even worth mentioning even once. https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11...

rebelos 5y ago

You can only believe this if you've fallen for the spin perpetrated by media outlets. The number of unarmed Black civilians killed by police each year is so small that you can fit the entire list of names and details since 2014 (31 total) on a few pages of generously-spaced HTML table rows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americans_killed_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States#2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americ.... This is against approximately 10 million arrests per year and some multiple of that in total police encounters. While it's tragic that the count is nonzero, any rational person should be amazed that the incidence is so vanishingly low, given the uncertainty inherent to policing. It's truly remarkable that it isn't much much higher. I couldn't find statistics about police killings of unarmed White people, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number is higher than 31 since 2014. The only reason you think there is (or was) an epidemic of police shootings of unarmed Black people is because the media has worked very hard to maximally exploit cherrypicked cases to get you to believe that. Furthermore, Black communities are often strong advocates of retaining or even increasing police presence: > A Gallup poll conducted from June 23 to July 6 [2020] surveying more than 36,000 U.S. adults found that 61 percent of Black Americans said they'd like police to spend the same amount of time in their community, while 20 percent answered they'd like to see more police, totaling 81 percent. Just 19 percent of those polled said they wanted police to spend less time in their area. The reason for this is obvious. Persistent socioeconomic inequality has had the same devastating impact within Black communities as it has had everywhere else in the world: increased criminality.

fighterpilot 5y ago
This is a good survey that shows the impact of availability bias on people's perceptions about this topic: https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/reports/Research-Report-CUPES-007.pdf https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/reports/Research-Rep...
- rebelos 5y ago
  The problem is that when you sign up for a tribe, you experience an emotional obligation and social pressure to adopt its beliefs wholesale, even if that means jettisoning rationality along the way. This is an affliction that beleaguers both sides of the aisle.
threatofrain 5y ago
There is no nationwide effort to classify killings based on whether an individual was armed at the time. It's better to just look at killings because those are significant enough to record. https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f2c03-d500-49c6-89fc-f282013132e3.html https://www.axios.com/latinos-killed-by-police-estimate-858f...
- rebelos 5y ago
  The suggestion that there is some significant number of police killings that are going unreported - especially in the environment of the past several years - is categorically conspiratorial thinking. It fails the barest of sanity checks when you consider just how 'deep state' an effort would be required for that to be conducted at scale. Are there some unreported police killings? Almost certainly. Would there be enough to alter the central thrust of the above argument about the shockingly low incidence of police killings of unarmed persons relative to ~10 million arrests per year and some multiple of that in total encounters? Almost certainly not. EDIT: Poster changed the link and added a comment. The below is a response to the modified comment. > There is no nationwide effort to classify killings based on whether an individual was armed at the time. It's better to just look at killings because those are significant enough to record. Sure. You can look at the total number of police killings and not only are the numbers still shockingly low as a percentage of arrests and encounters, but there is also no overt sign of an extraordinary racial bias: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de....

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

LudwigNagasena 5y ago

Actually statistical studies usually don’t find racial discrepancies in the lethal use of force even when they don’t use control variables. However the differences exist in non-lethal use of force even when you account for various control variables (time of the day, location, income of the civilian, etc.)

blagie 5y ago

It's not a contest. You don't "fix" anti-black racism with anti-Asian or anti-white racism. Racism is wrong wherever it's found. I'm most concerned about anti-Asian racism because the problem is serious and unacknowledged. Anti-black racism is, at the very least, now acknowledged as a problem. I tend to focus my efforts where others don't.