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I think what you said is a very unforgiving and slightly misogynistic way of describing what has been spelled out many other places before: women are increasing

by irowe 5y ago

I think what you said is a very unforgiving and slightly misogynistic way of describing what has been spelled out many other places before: women are increasingly opting for more education or career advancement in lieu of becoming homemakers. They don’t make those decisions for the benefit of men. They don’t have to. This has little to do with observed femininity or the “attractiveness” of getting a degree.

jeofken 5y ago
“Unforgiving” and “misogynistic” are words unrelated to whether something is true or false - just something to keep in mind
- irowe 5y ago
  You’re absolutely correct, which is why I chose to phrase my post to say that the parent was taking a truth (women are increasingly choosing career over kids) and expressing it in what I consider to be bad faith. I don’t think that’s acceptable. I also seriously doubt that the claims about women not living up to some standard of attractiveness or femininity are true, misogynistic or not.
  - username90 5y ago
    Why is it ok to blame men but not women though? Either we blame both or none. I'd say blame none. Ultimately on a population level you don't have lazy or cold, just politics with policies, incentives etc, so it doesn't make sense to blame anyone in particular. Instead of blaming just look at what policies would be more impactful for fixing the problems.
  - throwaway33432 5y ago
    70%~ of women in the US are overweight or obese. within the US, the amount of physically attractive women is steadily decreasing.
Mirioron 5y ago
>They don’t make those decisions for the benefit of men. They don’t have to. But isn't that the parent poster's point? They don't make decisions that make them more attractive for marriage, therefore they're less likely to end up married. The same argument applies to men too. Men don't have to do things that make them more attractive to women, but they shouldn't be all that surprised when they end up not being attractive to women.
- majormajor 5y ago
  There's a group missing here. We're discussing stories talking about a demographic of women that are unhappy with the men they date, and also about a demographic of men that aren't dating at all. The men unable to get a date at all clearly have some work to do - even when there's so many unhappy women, there is something they're still doing or not doing that makes them even less appealing. The unhappy women and the men they're currently dating are a more curious situation. Are the men unsatisfied with them in particular, and so these women have work to do to convince a man they're "marriage material"? Or are the men simply not looking for anything that serious at all? The general position of the media coverage is that it's the latter: the women can't "make themselves good enough for marriage" because the men just want the casual merry-go-round to continue. And there are certainly men quoted in articles about this who feel exactly that, but I can't say for certain that we're missing another group who just finds these women lacking. My personal view is that we've shifted a bit, so the "growing up" that would've normally happened for these men in their early 20s is now ten years behind or so, but I see it happening in my cohort now as everyone is in their mid-30s. So I'm not too concerned for that side of things.
  - username90 5y ago
    When you have 4 women who wants to date 1 man then they will feel fierce competition and that everything just gets handed to guys. Similarly the 3 men those women refuse to date will feel that dating is a woman's game.
    - majormajor 5y ago

by irowe 5y ago

jeofken 5y ago

“Unforgiving” and “misogynistic” are words unrelated to whether something is true or false - just something to keep in mind

irowe 5y ago
You’re absolutely correct, which is why I chose to phrase my post to say that the parent was taking a truth (women are increasingly choosing career over kids) and expressing it in what I consider to be bad faith. I don’t think that’s acceptable. I also seriously doubt that the claims about women not living up to some standard of attractiveness or femininity are true, misogynistic or not.
- username90 5y ago
  Why is it ok to blame men but not women though? Either we blame both or none. I'd say blame none. Ultimately on a population level you don't have lazy or cold, just politics with policies, incentives etc, so it doesn't make sense to blame anyone in particular. Instead of blaming just look at what policies would be more impactful for fixing the problems.
- throwaway33432 5y ago
  70%~ of women in the US are overweight or obese. within the US, the amount of physically attractive women is steadily decreasing.

Mirioron 5y ago

>They don’t make those decisions for the benefit of men. They don’t have to. But isn't that the parent poster's point? They don't make decisions that make them more attractive for marriage, therefore they're less likely to end up married. The same argument applies to men too. Men don't have to do things that make them more attractive to women, but they shouldn't be all that surprised when they end up not being attractive to women.

majormajor 5y ago
There's a group missing here. We're discussing stories talking about a demographic of women that are unhappy with the men they date, and also about a demographic of men that aren't dating at all. The men unable to get a date at all clearly have some work to do - even when there's so many unhappy women, there is something they're still doing or not doing that makes them even less appealing. The unhappy women and the men they're currently dating are a more curious situation. Are the men unsatisfied with them in particular, and so these women have work to do to convince a man they're "marriage material"? Or are the men simply not looking for anything that serious at all? The general position of the media coverage is that it's the latter: the women can't "make themselves good enough for marriage" because the men just want the casual merry-go-round to continue. And there are certainly men quoted in articles about this who feel exactly that, but I can't say for certain that we're missing another group who just finds these women lacking. My personal view is that we've shifted a bit, so the "growing up" that would've normally happened for these men in their early 20s is now ten years behind or so, but I see it happening in my cohort now as everyone is in their mid-30s. So I'm not too concerned for that side of things.
- username90 5y ago
  When you have 4 women who wants to date 1 man then they will feel fierce competition and that everything just gets handed to guys. Similarly the 3 men those women refuse to date will feel that dating is a woman's game.
  - majormajor 5y ago