4 ms·

Aren't mugshots public records?

jrockway 5y ago
It's the great "public" vs. "publicized" debate.
tyingq 5y ago
Sort of. Some police departments publish them, some don't. Some publish them only day of, then remove them. Some only show them if you do the right kind of search (last/first/ maybe + birth). The predatory mugshot sites scrape these variations and publish them in a "forever" way, with lots of SEO tricks. Then basically shake you down for payment to remove them.
mike_d 5y ago
Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee. Mugshots.com was doing exactly this until they got hit with extortion charges: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-website-owners-extortion-20180518-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-websi...
- Rasta1s 5y ago
  " Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee." I don't believe anyone has an obligation to remove if someone found not guilty. The arrest happened, that's a fact. The information is public was made public by the government, that's also a fact. From my understanding once something is made public you can't put it back in the bag. The government may do so on their own databases (Ie. Expungement, removal from government databases) but that doesn't apply to the public and especially not to publications who have first amendment right to publish public records. I looked up the case you mentioned, it's still pending and the arguments made by the government are questionable https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/california-prosecutors-arrest-website-owners-allowing-money-to-influence-which-public-records-they-host.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/calif...
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
    Yeah, you're confusing "it's legal" with "it's not a depraved waste of one's humanity praying on the weakest of society". That should be wholly obvious from the fact that these sites exist, out in the open. And from the fact that nobody argued what you're refuting. (It's wrong, obviously, and such practices should be illegal, as they are in every civilised country and then some. But that's a separate matter)
  - beerandt 5y ago
    You're focusing on the "public record", when you need to be focusing on what constitutes blackmail, extortion, bribery, etc. And while expungement is a complicated thing, it generally means that legally, it never happened. That has tons and tons of different legal interpretations even within one jurisdiction, depending on the who/what/why. For instance you might be legally protected to claim you were never arrested when getting your driver's license, or applying for a job, but not on a concealed-carry permit application. Depending on how a 3rd party distributes that expunged info, it could be considered libel or slander, especially once the publisher/speaker is made aware of the falsehood, or given a court order, yet persists. Judges don't usually bother ordering newspapers to try and collect and destroy what's already been distributed, but... Papers are certainly not allowed to reprint it or continue to publish/distribute after they've been given whatever constitutes legal notice. At least some jurisdictions will award punitive-damage-multipliers for continuing to distribute those falsehoods after some point where they should have known not to. So if you're sending out an email newsletter, you might be ok by not sending that issue to anyone else. But leaving the same content on a website would probably be considered "continuing to publish." Which basically means: it's complicated. And that doesn't even touch the blackmail or extortion elements.
    - Rasta1s 5y ago
      So much inaccuracies, where to begin? No, libel/slander/defamation has nothing to do with distributing factual information, including expunged records. Judges can't order you not to publish factual information. If they do, it's against the constitution and your First Amendment rights. While a person can claim the event never happened, it doesn't change the fact that it did, and doesn't take your constitutional rights from talking about it. On the extortion note, see the techdirt link.

It's the great "public" vs. "publicized" debate.

Sort of. Some police departments publish them, some don't. Some publish them only day of, then remove them. Some only show them if you do the right kind of search (last/first/ maybe + birth). The predatory mugshot sites scrape these variations and publish them in a "forever" way, with lots of SEO tricks. Then basically shake you down for payment to remove them.

mike_d 5y ago

Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee. Mugshots.com was doing exactly this until they got hit with extortion charges: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-website-owners-extortion-20180518-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-websi...

Rasta1s 5y ago
" Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee." I don't believe anyone has an obligation to remove if someone found not guilty. The arrest happened, that's a fact. The information is public was made public by the government, that's also a fact. From my understanding once something is made public you can't put it back in the bag. The government may do so on their own databases (Ie. Expungement, removal from government databases) but that doesn't apply to the public and especially not to publications who have first amendment right to publish public records. I looked up the case you mentioned, it's still pending and the arguments made by the government are questionable https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/california-prosecutors-arrest-website-owners-allowing-money-to-influence-which-public-records-they-host.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/calif...
- IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
  Yeah, you're confusing "it's legal" with "it's not a depraved waste of one's humanity praying on the weakest of society". That should be wholly obvious from the fact that these sites exist, out in the open. And from the fact that nobody argued what you're refuting. (It's wrong, obviously, and such practices should be illegal, as they are in every civilised country and then some. But that's a separate matter)
- beerandt 5y ago
  You're focusing on the "public record", when you need to be focusing on what constitutes blackmail, extortion, bribery, etc. And while expungement is a complicated thing, it generally means that legally, it never happened. That has tons and tons of different legal interpretations even within one jurisdiction, depending on the who/what/why. For instance you might be legally protected to claim you were never arrested when getting your driver's license, or applying for a job, but not on a concealed-carry permit application. Depending on how a 3rd party distributes that expunged info, it could be considered libel or slander, especially once the publisher/speaker is made aware of the falsehood, or given a court order, yet persists. Judges don't usually bother ordering newspapers to try and collect and destroy what's already been distributed, but... Papers are certainly not allowed to reprint it or continue to publish/distribute after they've been given whatever constitutes legal notice. At least some jurisdictions will award punitive-damage-multipliers for continuing to distribute those falsehoods after some point where they should have known not to. So if you're sending out an email newsletter, you might be ok by not sending that issue to anyone else. But leaving the same content on a website would probably be considered "continuing to publish." Which basically means: it's complicated. And that doesn't even touch the blackmail or extortion elements.
  - Rasta1s 5y ago
    So much inaccuracies, where to begin? No, libel/slander/defamation has nothing to do with distributing factual information, including expunged records. Judges can't order you not to publish factual information. If they do, it's against the constitution and your First Amendment rights. While a person can claim the event never happened, it doesn't change the fact that it did, and doesn't take your constitutional rights from talking about it. On the extortion note, see the techdirt link.