7 ms·

Well, isn't Latin a whole cloth calque of Greek anyway... But that aside, if you're interested in calques, checkout Old Church Slavonic, they calqued massive a

Well, isn't Latin a whole cloth calque of Greek anyway... But that aside, if you're interested in calques, checkout Old Church Slavonic, they calqued massive amounts of Greek words, rather than going the lazy route of English and just borrowing them. They hade the same issue, no way to express these complex religious ideas, but solved it in different way. A lot of these words are still used in modern slavic languages. преображение = transfiguration (pre-obrazhenie, pere = through, obraz = image) Богородица = Θεοτόκος (bogoroditsa, bog = god, rodit' = give birth) I especially love that S:t John Chrysostomos is called Ioann Zlatoust (Golden mouth) and Constantinople is Tsargrad or Konstantinograd.

schoen 5y ago
Those are great! > but solved it in different way Different from what? You were mentioning that Latin calques of Greek are common, which is my impression too (ἀνά-στασις → re-surrectio, ὑπό-στασις -> sub-stantia, and non-religious συμ-πάθεια → com-passio).
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I mean that in English they just took the Greek or Latin word and anglicized it a bit, but in OCS they mostly calqued more complex words. Some common words were borrowed though, like gospel which is евангелии - evangeli. Chinese and more traditional Japanese is also good at calquing or inventing new words, instead of borrowing, like computer in Chinese being called electrobrain, or orthodox in Japanese is sei-kyou, meaning correct church or something like that. Of course Japanese is basically made up of Chinese calques and ancient loanwords, which is also a fascinating story.
  - msrenee 5y ago
    Just to nitpick a bit, it's евангелие - evangelieh. Well, in Russian it is. I just realized you were talking about old church Slavonic. I just saw modern Cyrillic and went straight to Russian. As far as I can figure out without any clue about OCS, it still seems like you're missing the last syllable there.
    - msrenee 5y ago
      Yeh-van-gel'-ee-ay to be more precise. I really suck at transliterating. With a hard G "guh" sound, rather than the kind of soft G/J sound it has in English. I need to learn IPA.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Yes this is the Russian form, but all those words are usually very similar in Russian and the latest Russian forms of Church Slavic, there are many varieties for different times and places and the one used in the Russian church today feels closer to modern Russian than to something like Codex Suprasliensis. As to the transcription, sure it wasn’t precise (and yeah it ends with an e in singular) Nowadays it of course starts with YE but it’s not really clear if that was always the case, looking at etymology resources like Fasmer: http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_manus/Ostromir_Gospel/index.php http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_manus/Ostromir_Gospel/index.php
        msrenee 5y ago
        Neat. I learned something today. Thanks!
mikelward 5y ago
Mozart's full name was Johannes Chrysostomus Wolfgangus Theophilus Mozart (Johann Goldmund Wolfgang Gottlieb Mozart). Theophilus (Gottlieb) is Amadeus in Latin. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart%27s_name https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart%27s_name

schoen 5y ago

Those are great! > but solved it in different way Different from what? You were mentioning that Latin calques of Greek are common, which is my impression too (ἀνά-στασις → re-surrectio, ὑπό-στασις -> sub-stantia, and non-religious συμ-πάθεια → com-passio).

Grustaf 5y ago
I mean that in English they just took the Greek or Latin word and anglicized it a bit, but in OCS they mostly calqued more complex words. Some common words were borrowed though, like gospel which is евангелии - evangeli. Chinese and more traditional Japanese is also good at calquing or inventing new words, instead of borrowing, like computer in Chinese being called electrobrain, or orthodox in Japanese is sei-kyou, meaning correct church or something like that. Of course Japanese is basically made up of Chinese calques and ancient loanwords, which is also a fascinating story.
- msrenee 5y ago
  Just to nitpick a bit, it's евангелие - evangelieh. Well, in Russian it is. I just realized you were talking about old church Slavonic. I just saw modern Cyrillic and went straight to Russian. As far as I can figure out without any clue about OCS, it still seems like you're missing the last syllable there.
  - msrenee 5y ago
    Yeh-van-gel'-ee-ay to be more precise. I really suck at transliterating. With a hard G "guh" sound, rather than the kind of soft G/J sound it has in English. I need to learn IPA.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      Yes this is the Russian form, but all those words are usually very similar in Russian and the latest Russian forms of Church Slavic, there are many varieties for different times and places and the one used in the Russian church today feels closer to modern Russian than to something like Codex Suprasliensis. As to the transcription, sure it wasn’t precise (and yeah it ends with an e in singular) Nowadays it of course starts with YE but it’s not really clear if that was always the case, looking at etymology resources like Fasmer: http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_manus/Ostromir_Gospel/index.php http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_manus/Ostromir_Gospel/index.php
      - msrenee 5y ago
        Neat. I learned something today. Thanks!

mikelward 5y ago

Mozart's full name was Johannes Chrysostomus Wolfgangus Theophilus Mozart (Johann Goldmund Wolfgang Gottlieb Mozart). Theophilus (Gottlieb) is Amadeus in Latin. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart%27s_name https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart%27s_name