3 ms·

Realizing that Carter had sided with the Khmer Rouge to check Vietnam despite knowing what they were up to was a stomach churning moment for me, personally.

FredPret 5y ago
Again, I'm not saying the US is perfect or even good. I'm saying you have two separate moral measuring tapes here, one for the West, and one for the rest. Clearly the only current superpowers are the US and China. China's moral performance is absolutely shocking - from state-sponsored cannibalism (read up on the Cultural Revolution), CURRENT concentration camps, supporting North Korea. To most importantly, not feeling any shame about any of the above. If you want to compare the US to past superpowers, name an empire, and I'll name a list of atrocities that'll make Carter and the Khmer Rouge and Nixon and Pinochet look like a Sunday school lesson. The US isn't a little angel if seen in isolation. But in contrast to the alternatives it's just wonderful.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  > I'm saying you have two separate moral measuring tapes here, one for the West, and one for the rest. I do not. Literally the first post I had in this thread said “better than China”. Please do not make up what I’m saying and argue against it. It is extremely annoying, and eventually I’ll come to the conclusion that you’re just acting in bad faith. My point is not that the US is worse than China, my point is that the definition of freedom isn’t relative; saying “we’re not as bad as China” is not the same as saying “we’ve protected freedom”. Such a relativistic view of human rights is exactly how you justify a lot of bad shit.
  - FredPret 5y ago
    Fair enough. My worry is that there are people would take the bad parts of the Western world / the US and use it to justify ruining or even overthrowing the whole thing.

3 ms·

Realizing that Carter had sided with the Khmer Rouge to check Vietnam despite knowing what they were up to was a stomach churning moment for me, personally.

by ashtonkem 5y ago

FredPret 5y ago
Again, I'm not saying the US is perfect or even good. I'm saying you have two separate moral measuring tapes here, one for the West, and one for the rest. Clearly the only current superpowers are the US and China. China's moral performance is absolutely shocking - from state-sponsored cannibalism (read up on the Cultural Revolution), CURRENT concentration camps, supporting North Korea. To most importantly, not feeling any shame about any of the above. If you want to compare the US to past superpowers, name an empire, and I'll name a list of atrocities that'll make Carter and the Khmer Rouge and Nixon and Pinochet look like a Sunday school lesson. The US isn't a little angel if seen in isolation. But in contrast to the alternatives it's just wonderful.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  > I'm saying you have two separate moral measuring tapes here, one for the West, and one for the rest. I do not. Literally the first post I had in this thread said “better than China”. Please do not make up what I’m saying and argue against it. It is extremely annoying, and eventually I’ll come to the conclusion that you’re just acting in bad faith. My point is not that the US is worse than China, my point is that the definition of freedom isn’t relative; saying “we’re not as bad as China” is not the same as saying “we’ve protected freedom”. Such a relativistic view of human rights is exactly how you justify a lot of bad shit.
  - FredPret 5y ago
    Fair enough. My worry is that there are people would take the bad parts of the Western world / the US and use it to justify ruining or even overthrowing the whole thing.