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There's a difference between outlawing enforcement of segregation by law and enforcing laws requiring people to go to schools they may not want their kids to go

There's a difference between outlawing enforcement of segregation by law and enforcing laws requiring people to go to schools they may not want their kids to go to. I think calling the second "finishing" the first is misleading. However, there is a huge problem in school funding. The fact that school funding is primarily local means that poor neighborhoods get bad schools. That is a huge problem. We definitely should make funding of schools more egalitarian. Eliminating local funding in favor of state funding would do a lot for the public school system I think. But I also think giving parents more choice in schooling would also be a big win.

whimsicalism 5y ago
> However, there is a huge problem in school funding. School funding is actually not as inegalitarian as you might have been led to believe - federal & state funding usually makes up for the differences in property tax funding, we're often spending more $/kid at these bad schools. > There's a difference between outlawing enforcement of segregation by law and enforcing laws requiring people to go to schools they may not want their kids to go to. I think calling the second "finishing" the first is misleading. The distinction you're making is between de jure segregation and de facto segregation, both of which are constitutional violations.
- billytetrud 5y ago
  > we're often spending more $/kid at these bad schools. Source? I'm surprised to hear that. > The distinction you're making is between de jure segregation and de facto segregation, both of which are constitutional violations. I disagree. It is not a consitutional violation for black people to live near each other and go to schools with each other. People segregate themselves socially all the time, for better or worse, and it has nothing to do with the constitution. It would be incredibly dubious to suggest that forcing people to integrate socially would be an appropriate government action - especially if done over a long period of time.
  - dnautics 5y ago
    https://www.asumag.com/research/top-10s/article/21126924/among-largest-districts-who-spends-the-most-per-pupil https://www.asumag.com/research/top-10s/article/21126924/amo... In the top spending districts there are two extremely good districts and the rest (esp. Baltimore and hawaii) are generally well known as terrible. LAUSD spent 18k/pupil, and Chicago spent 16k, both terrible districtd... Don't know what they are not on there Perhaps it shouldn't be surprising that they cost so much. The common factor between these districts is rampant political corruption (Baltimore spent millions on a plasma-tv-for-hq scandal, la and NYC burn millions on lawsuits for not firing child rapists, etc)... Eliminating rubber rooms is finally coming to NYC:
  - NotSammyHagar 5y ago
    I think the solution to this is full federal funding of us public schools. Some people won't like that because they will argue we'd be pushing some federal vision of education. As a graduate of southern education, I argue we should talk about the widespread support for racist laws like Jim Crow instead of just saying slavery was bad and the civil war ended those problems.
    - billytetrud 5y ago
      > full federal funding of us public schools Why isn't state funding wide enough? The politics around education funding are mudled because governments love to put stipulations around receiving funding, so they can control the recipients. I would agree with those who don't want the federal government to take more control over how education happens. But I could be convinced of federal funding of schools. Of course, both of these things already happen to a (large) degree.
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  I am very skeptical of that view. Nicer public schools get money in the form of parental fundraising. At my kid's elementary school in a big town on the west coast - not even in California, we raised > 500k every 2 years; poor schools probably didn't have an event where the members of the programmer class dropped a few $k each. This is just the latest way to help your kids.

whimsicalism 5y ago

> However, there is a huge problem in school funding. School funding is actually not as inegalitarian as you might have been led to believe - federal & state funding usually makes up for the differences in property tax funding, we're often spending more $/kid at these bad schools. > There's a difference between outlawing enforcement of segregation by law and enforcing laws requiring people to go to schools they may not want their kids to go to. I think calling the second "finishing" the first is misleading. The distinction you're making is between de jure segregation and de facto segregation, both of which are constitutional violations.

billytetrud 5y ago
> we're often spending more $/kid at these bad schools. Source? I'm surprised to hear that. > The distinction you're making is between de jure segregation and de facto segregation, both of which are constitutional violations. I disagree. It is not a consitutional violation for black people to live near each other and go to schools with each other. People segregate themselves socially all the time, for better or worse, and it has nothing to do with the constitution. It would be incredibly dubious to suggest that forcing people to integrate socially would be an appropriate government action - especially if done over a long period of time.
- dnautics 5y ago
  https://www.asumag.com/research/top-10s/article/21126924/among-largest-districts-who-spends-the-most-per-pupil https://www.asumag.com/research/top-10s/article/21126924/amo... In the top spending districts there are two extremely good districts and the rest (esp. Baltimore and hawaii) are generally well known as terrible. LAUSD spent 18k/pupil, and Chicago spent 16k, both terrible districtd... Don't know what they are not on there Perhaps it shouldn't be surprising that they cost so much. The common factor between these districts is rampant political corruption (Baltimore spent millions on a plasma-tv-for-hq scandal, la and NYC burn millions on lawsuits for not firing child rapists, etc)... Eliminating rubber rooms is finally coming to NYC:
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  I think the solution to this is full federal funding of us public schools. Some people won't like that because they will argue we'd be pushing some federal vision of education. As a graduate of southern education, I argue we should talk about the widespread support for racist laws like Jim Crow instead of just saying slavery was bad and the civil war ended those problems.
  - billytetrud 5y ago
    > full federal funding of us public schools Why isn't state funding wide enough? The politics around education funding are mudled because governments love to put stipulations around receiving funding, so they can control the recipients. I would agree with those who don't want the federal government to take more control over how education happens. But I could be convinced of federal funding of schools. Of course, both of these things already happen to a (large) degree.
NotSammyHagar 5y ago
I am very skeptical of that view. Nicer public schools get money in the form of parental fundraising. At my kid's elementary school in a big town on the west coast - not even in California, we raised > 500k every 2 years; poor schools probably didn't have an event where the members of the programmer class dropped a few $k each. This is just the latest way to help your kids.