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The windows hating is so boring and childish. Windows, and particularly Windows 10, is a very good OS. It's not even open source advocates that dislike it so mu

by binbag 5y ago

The windows hating is so boring and childish. Windows, and particularly Windows 10, is a very good OS. It's not even open source advocates that dislike it so much. I think most Linux users would admit Windows is a solid option, if just not for them. It's usually just Mac fans.

hughrr 5y ago
It’s really not. So far this week for me Windows Hello has just totally broken, my thunderbolt dock has decided to no longer recognise the keyboard, I’ve had a problem where the graphics driver just shats itself every hour, the taskbar disappeared and wouldn’t come back and during last weeks update cycle it got stuck and had to roll back to a restore point. Oh and docker for windows completely broke and I still can’t get it to work again with WSL2 I am literally burning hours dealing with this shit on a weekly basis. It’s a flaming shit show and to call this mire childish complaining is nothing short of insulting. ”sorry I’m late for the meeting my laptop is hosed/rebooting/fucked” is a daily occurrence. It’s not good. They need to do a better job considering I pay them money. That’s all I’m asking.
- chomp 5y ago
  Yes and Docker for Mac is terrible, I'm sitting with a quarter of my RAM in kernel_task with no idea what it's doing and my system stutters every few minutes while who knows what pages off of the SSD, I've had MacOS releases get stuck in a half-upgraded state which required a reinstall, I have monitor connectivity problems, and I've had MacOS get stuck at the login prompt. And don't get me started on the issues with Linux desktops, which can hardly even get screensharing to work. My and others' point is that there is no perfect OS. Windows is good, MacOS is good, Linux is "okay", and if you're determining good by the critera "is there zero issues" then you're going to be very sad for the rest of your life.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    I use all three platforms on a daily basis and windows is 10x worse than the next contender. As for Docker on the Mac I agree. I don’t use it. I use a Linux VM which is where I’m currently heading on windows at the moment, unpicking all the garbage. The least troubled combination I can suggest is: use macOS on an M1 machine and keep it close to default as possible and do all your dev on a Ubuntu LTS box via SSH. And just avoid windows entirely. Mac makes a good cloud terminal. Linux makes a good cloud server. Windows makes…err no idea.
    - chomp 5y ago
      Gotcha. I don't want to sound combative or defensive; my entire day job is just double clicking terminal icon or the web browser while connected to a couple monitors, so I don't really put the OS to its paces so to speak. If you have more issues on Windows then I believe you, I just don't see that in my day to day.
    - type0 5y ago
      > I use all three platforms on a daily basis and windows is 10x... Are you using Windows 10X by any chance? Sounds like the way it should be.
Retric 5y ago
Windows 10 objectively has serious issues, the control panels being an obvious example. I am a Windows dev and it’s not their worst OS, but it’s at best average.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Control panels are funny. The last time I had to reinstall windows was because when I clicked anything in the new settings app, nothing happened! That was May :(
pxc 5y ago
As a Linux person, learning that the only way to get Windows installed without plugging in a Microsoft account was to _never connect to the internet during the install process_ made me feel like I was from a different planet than everyone else. The thought was really > Why do people tolerate this as the norm? How can people stand it? Not to say that that one thing should be unbearable to everyone, but that it struck me as a hallmark of a culture with totally different expectations that I can't really imagine sharing at this point. As for this: > I think most Linux users would admit Windows is a solid option, if just not for them. Idk how to hash the meaning of this out, exactly. It seems indisputable that it's a viable option in that you definitely _can_ use it for various things, as evidenced by the fact that millions and millions of people _do_ use it for various things. But that seems like a totally separate question to me from liking it, or whether it's good in this sense or that. Is it coherent to say that it's a ‘solid option’ and also that it fucking sucks and I don't understand how anybody can put up with it? Maybe somehow that's where I'm at with it
c7DJTLrn 5y ago
I couldn't give a damn about macOS or the "Linux desktop". Yet I would still call Windows a disaster. Windows 10 was released almost 6 years ago now, and it's still a Frankenstein mess of 10 different UI styles dating all the way back to Win95, with no apparent drive to fix it up and make it consistent. Microsoft has extremely weak engineering culture.
- spicybright 5y ago
  They cater to business more than individual consumers. Backwards compatibility matters to them much more than ui consistency. I tend to agree with that for my own uses. I don't care if it's pretty if it works.
  - c7DJTLrn 5y ago
    That argument doesn't make sense. UI has no impact on API compatibility. The only situation in which software would break is if it's doing screen scraping and automated input, in which case that software deserves to break. Backwards compatibility is not an excuse to allow 20 years of tech debt to accumulate anyway.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Those myriad incompatible UIs are just as annoying at work, so how does "cater to business more than individual consumers" make them any better?
  - forgotpwd16 5y ago
    If they cater to businesses, what is the point of those UI modifications?
PascLeRasc 5y ago
You’re right, I guess as a Mac fan I’m biased. I’m used to having luxury features like local accounts and being allowed to disable updates. It’s not fair to expect that from Windows.
- binbag 5y ago
  Why bother about how the windows installation process works or their policy for permanently disabling updates? If they changed those things would it really make you want to use Windows? I suspect not. Most people who use Windows are fine with having a MS account and fine with regular updates.
- type0 5y ago
  Apple products are so overpriced that it is indeed a luxury. Windows is for the regular people because they like candy crash and Linux is for geeks.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  Half the features force you to log into an Apple/iCloud account anyways. At this point, considering every mobile phone requires you to sigh into some account as step 1 of setting up the device I don't really care that MS asks too. As a bonus all my Windows 10 keys are associated with my account and it makes things easier.
- pxc 5y ago
  > luxury features like local accounts i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here

by binbag 5y ago

hughrr 5y ago

It’s really not. So far this week for me Windows Hello has just totally broken, my thunderbolt dock has decided to no longer recognise the keyboard, I’ve had a problem where the graphics driver just shats itself every hour, the taskbar disappeared and wouldn’t come back and during last weeks update cycle it got stuck and had to roll back to a restore point. Oh and docker for windows completely broke and I still can’t get it to work again with WSL2 I am literally burning hours dealing with this shit on a weekly basis. It’s a flaming shit show and to call this mire childish complaining is nothing short of insulting. ”sorry I’m late for the meeting my laptop is hosed/rebooting/fucked” is a daily occurrence. It’s not good. They need to do a better job considering I pay them money. That’s all I’m asking.

chomp 5y ago
Yes and Docker for Mac is terrible, I'm sitting with a quarter of my RAM in kernel_task with no idea what it's doing and my system stutters every few minutes while who knows what pages off of the SSD, I've had MacOS releases get stuck in a half-upgraded state which required a reinstall, I have monitor connectivity problems, and I've had MacOS get stuck at the login prompt. And don't get me started on the issues with Linux desktops, which can hardly even get screensharing to work. My and others' point is that there is no perfect OS. Windows is good, MacOS is good, Linux is "okay", and if you're determining good by the critera "is there zero issues" then you're going to be very sad for the rest of your life.
- hughrr 5y ago
  I use all three platforms on a daily basis and windows is 10x worse than the next contender. As for Docker on the Mac I agree. I don’t use it. I use a Linux VM which is where I’m currently heading on windows at the moment, unpicking all the garbage. The least troubled combination I can suggest is: use macOS on an M1 machine and keep it close to default as possible and do all your dev on a Ubuntu LTS box via SSH. And just avoid windows entirely. Mac makes a good cloud terminal. Linux makes a good cloud server. Windows makes…err no idea.
  - chomp 5y ago
    Gotcha. I don't want to sound combative or defensive; my entire day job is just double clicking terminal icon or the web browser while connected to a couple monitors, so I don't really put the OS to its paces so to speak. If you have more issues on Windows then I believe you, I just don't see that in my day to day.
  - type0 5y ago
    > I use all three platforms on a daily basis and windows is 10x... Are you using Windows 10X by any chance? Sounds like the way it should be.

Retric 5y ago

Windows 10 objectively has serious issues, the control panels being an obvious example. I am a Windows dev and it’s not their worst OS, but it’s at best average.

hughrr 5y ago
Control panels are funny. The last time I had to reinstall windows was because when I clicked anything in the new settings app, nothing happened! That was May :(

pxc 5y ago

As a Linux person, learning that the only way to get Windows installed without plugging in a Microsoft account was to _never connect to the internet during the install process_ made me feel like I was from a different planet than everyone else. The thought was really > Why do people tolerate this as the norm? How can people stand it? Not to say that that one thing should be unbearable to everyone, but that it struck me as a hallmark of a culture with totally different expectations that I can't really imagine sharing at this point. As for this: > I think most Linux users would admit Windows is a solid option, if just not for them. Idk how to hash the meaning of this out, exactly. It seems indisputable that it's a viable option in that you definitely _can_ use it for various things, as evidenced by the fact that millions and millions of people _do_ use it for various things. But that seems like a totally separate question to me from liking it, or whether it's good in this sense or that. Is it coherent to say that it's a ‘solid option’ and also that it fucking sucks and I don't understand how anybody can put up with it? Maybe somehow that's where I'm at with it

c7DJTLrn 5y ago

I couldn't give a damn about macOS or the "Linux desktop". Yet I would still call Windows a disaster. Windows 10 was released almost 6 years ago now, and it's still a Frankenstein mess of 10 different UI styles dating all the way back to Win95, with no apparent drive to fix it up and make it consistent. Microsoft has extremely weak engineering culture.

spicybright 5y ago
They cater to business more than individual consumers. Backwards compatibility matters to them much more than ui consistency. I tend to agree with that for my own uses. I don't care if it's pretty if it works.
- c7DJTLrn 5y ago
  That argument doesn't make sense. UI has no impact on API compatibility. The only situation in which software would break is if it's doing screen scraping and automated input, in which case that software deserves to break. Backwards compatibility is not an excuse to allow 20 years of tech debt to accumulate anyway.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Those myriad incompatible UIs are just as annoying at work, so how does "cater to business more than individual consumers" make them any better?
- forgotpwd16 5y ago
  If they cater to businesses, what is the point of those UI modifications?

PascLeRasc 5y ago

You’re right, I guess as a Mac fan I’m biased. I’m used to having luxury features like local accounts and being allowed to disable updates. It’s not fair to expect that from Windows.

binbag 5y ago
Why bother about how the windows installation process works or their policy for permanently disabling updates? If they changed those things would it really make you want to use Windows? I suspect not. Most people who use Windows are fine with having a MS account and fine with regular updates.
type0 5y ago
Apple products are so overpriced that it is indeed a luxury. Windows is for the regular people because they like candy crash and Linux is for geeks.
salamandersauce 5y ago
Half the features force you to log into an Apple/iCloud account anyways. At this point, considering every mobile phone requires you to sigh into some account as step 1 of setting up the device I don't really care that MS asks too. As a bonus all my Windows 10 keys are associated with my account and it makes things easier.
pxc 5y ago
> luxury features like local accounts i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here