6 ms·

Personally I don't think so. Every time I download and install from an Windows ISO it seems worse. Right out of the bat there is a page where you need to unche

Personally I don't think so. Every time I download and install from an Windows ISO it seems worse. Right out of the bat there is a page where you need to uncheck all the spyware crap and there are so many it scrolls. They also make it so a normal local user is presented like a somewhat inferior experience than their web login. Then you have to fill in obligatory 3 recovery questions even if you are confident in your choice of passwords. Nothing of this is new but I've recently had to install Windows 10 on an old computer to use some crapware and after all the questioning and cringe "we are working hang on it" messages there was some huge tray icon displaying some weather data and other unnecessary stuff. Something about Interests and it sits there with lots of unsolicited stuff like OneDrive. The start menu is littered with squares filled with animated web page stuff and honestly its hard to find out if those are about news or ads. Now I'm not a Windows hater. I mean... LTSC and Windows server are nice. Why does default Windows and Windows Pro must look like BonziBuddyOS?

duxup 5y ago
The only thing I really notice is the settings ... app, box, thing, (not sure what to call it even) is wonky. Seems to get wonky-er all the time. But I'm hardly ever in there. That's really the major change I notice. The little UI changes in menu or task bar I find easy enough to just adjust and so forth whenever I need to do so. Mostly I just turn them off and doing so doesn't really bother me.
- ulzeraj 5y ago
  That reminds me there are two control panels. One with the trendy web page style (the pretty one) and the other using the old Windows 7 style (the useful control panel). And I suspect they know its terrible. What other reason would they reserve the the good stuff like the LTSC version to premium enterprise contracts? People who purchase and run Windows Pro and Windows Home are literally paying to feed the monstrous Microsoft telemetry machine. And that's also the reason they don't care anymore if you ever register and activate.
  - duxup 5y ago
    That's exactly what I thought when I ran into the old control panel. "Oh ... I see ... they know."
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    It’s obnoxious because while it seems like they keep adding features to the former that I’m used to using the latter for. The other day, I was trying to set a static IP on a VM. Apparently the new Setting app has an option, but for whatever reason, it would change the IP settings. So I went into the classic network adapter options and set it there. That seemed to work, but the Settings app still didn’t show the adapter configured with a static IP. So I ran up config, and everything checked out thankfully. Old one is still cooler because you can add custom items in it :^)
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    And even within the Control Panel (the older one), there's multiple visually distinct UIs: 1. First, there's "Windows 7 style" applets like "File History", "Power Options", and "Programs and Features". I'm not sure how to summarize these beyond that they have a resizable window and usually have some options in a sidebar on the left, but they all have a visually consistent look (which was a lot more obvious before Windows 10). 2. Next, some Windows 7 era applets use a different interface which displays in a (mock) file browser, like "Devices and Printers" or "Fonts". 3. Then there's some older applets which use a Windows XP-era interface in a small, fixed-size window with tabs at the top, like "Date and Time" or "Mouse". 4. Finally, there are a few applets which have a completely unique interface, like "Indexing Options" or "Device Manager". 5. Oh, and I forgot to mention: some of the applets in the Control Panel open up a Settings applet when clicked, like "System" and "Taskbar". But even this isn't consistent; some applets in Settings, like "Mouse" have a "additional settings" link on the right which opens the Control Panel applet when clicked. Confused yet? Don't worry, the next version of Windows will assuredly find a way to make it worse.
    - alexvoda 5y ago
      1 and 2 are part of the same Vista/7 era Control Panel UI. 3 I believe is even older than that, maybe since 95 4 is the MMC. The MMC is actually great and I am disaponted to see it lose favor. You can even use the MMC to remotely admin other computers. The MMC is somethig I miss on other OSs. Microsoft should have really invested time in creating template projects used to migrate from the 95 era panels to the Vista/7 era panels. And then again for Win10. Because even if they migrate all windows settings to new panels they are still stuck with 3rd party panels using the old infrastructure (Synaptics, Flash, others still use the 95 era panels). And now migration across all the versions means a complete rewrite effort. And I am not even sure it is possible in all cases. So they are stuck maintaining old infrastructure. Mac OS fairs better because they had a clean break from 9 to X. And eventually X had pluggable 3rd party panels which proved to be a pain during the transition from 32bit to 64bit. Did Mac OS 9 and earlier have plugable 3rd party panels? Linux for a long time just didn't care. I belive KDE Plasma has this capability since 5 (not sure it was there in 4). It is the same with Windows (File) Explorer. It is incredibly plugable. Way more than alternatives on other OSs. There are namespace extensions, context menu extensions, icon overlay extensions, online storage support (since 10), etc.. Being stuck with supporting old infrastructure is a consequence of creating that infrastructure in the first place. The less you create the less you have to maintain. But, as a user, I will take more over less.
sneak 5y ago
> Right out of the bat there is a page where you need to uncheck all the spyware crap and there are so many it scrolls. This also doesn't even remotely turn off all of the spyware and phone-home, and you have to run something like WPD after install to finish the job.
passivate 5y ago
Our IT has given us deployment sticks for W10 Pro which format/install/deploy the OS using one script in about 5 minutes with zero nags/prompts anything else. It also sets up a default (non-cloud) user. I think its called an 'unattended' setup. So it definitely can be done. I think MS needs to provide a "Yes, I know what I'm doing, go away" Windows ISO.
- jiriro 5y ago
  Could you please elaborate on how that usb stick was made? :-) Time to time I need to do some Windows config/deployment – shortcuts, printers, make the damned NumLock ON, set those PDFs to open NOT in that ducked Edge;) and so on .. But this is not my top skill and after googling for some time I’d kill for a spot on advice.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - JackGreyhat 5y ago
    It can be a quite complex process. It also tends to break easily if not done right. Most organizations that deploy large amounts of systems will create Windows images with tools like Microsoft SCCM for example. This also works: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/96683-create-media-automated-unattended-install-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/96683-create-media-autom...
  - dafzor 5y ago
    All that's really needed is to add a Provisioning package to any normal usb install stick. Microsoft offers a UI based editor that allows you set the options you want as well as add scripts to be run. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/provisioning-packages/provisioning-packages https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/provi...
akiselev 5y ago
That stupid weather widget and the Xbox overlay randomly popping up, completely disabling input without an obvious way to get out (some random win key combo), finally drove me to dump Windows as a daily driver. It even drove me to get some real work done on my passion project so I'd never have to use a Windows VM for CAD ever again. I lived through Micro$oft but I was too inexperienced to understand the hate directed towards Microsoft. It's ironic that I only started to feel it now that they've changed their tune on the open source/dev stuff. To add insult to injury, shortly after, I got an email with this subject line from google: *> akiselev, take the next step on your Linux by confirming your Google Account settings
- user5994461 5y ago
  To turn off the weather. Right click on the task bar, news and interests, turn off.
  - TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
    If only that were the only step to stop the new Windows install spam.
- moogly 5y ago
  What Xbox overlay and what weather widget? Running 21H1 and never seen any of those.
  - hcs 5y ago
    Windows Logo Key + G, the "Xbox Game Bar".
    - moogly 5y ago
      Ah, I see. Well. I disabled that the first time I installed Windows 10, back... I don't know how many years ago. It's still disabled. Also, maybe the fact that I uninstalled all pre-installed apps I knew would never use made it so I skipped out on future weather widgets. I don't have a weather app for instance, because I'll just look out my window instead.
ROARosen 5y ago
> cringe "we are working hang on it" messages Ha! My favorite one is: "Leave everything to us". You get it splattered across the screen before the desktop loads for the firs time. It always gets me thinking, is it not enough for you guys to track me around, force send diagnostics data, foist updates upon me, now you want me to leave everything you!?
bydo 5y ago
There was even one release of Windows 10 Home where you couldn't create a local account, unless you tricked it by not connecting to a network. Not sure if this is still the case with current builds or if they came to their senses. And good luck if you did create one and you also happen to use Office 365, because now you have two Microsoft accounts, possibly with the same email address, that use the same login page, and that's not confusing at all.
- breakingcups 5y ago
  Yeah, that's still the case.
- pjerem 5y ago
  Oh did you say just TWO ? Nah. I created a Microsoft account with my work mail adress. Then a Windows 10 account with this stupid installer. So I did get two accounts. But that was before my employer decided to create « corporate » Microsoft accounts for everyone. That’s 3 accounts. With the same mail address. Now I just avoid to log in with those accounts because I don’t even understand how it even works.
  - dafzor 5y ago
    On https://account.microsoft.com/profile https://account.microsoft.com/profile you can change your email address for the account, changing them to a new email account will let you "unlink" them from your work email.
lostlogin 5y ago
> Personally I don't think so. Every time I download and install from an Windows ISO it seems worse. I’ve just been in a dark pit while trying to get a thunderbolt to sfp+ adapter working with ESXi. I ended up updating it via Windows but also tested it in various Ubuntu versions and macOS. Both Windows and Ubuntu install processes were great compared to my very distant memory of install processes - Windows was finicky about the state of the drive it went onto and didn’t want to be on an external drive, but that was it. The application Microsoft has made for creating boot disks is really nice. Apple in particular could learn a thing or two. Drivers though, my god. If the driver isn’t signed by Microsoft, it is a horror in Windows. Never got the dongle going in Esxi, it worked perfectly out the box for Apple and nearly the same for Ubuntu (though has to be unplugged and replugged after a reboot, and required manual config of mtu and network parameters. DHCP wouldn’t stick). I got full functionality from Windows after a series of driver updates, interspaced with firmware updates and removal of security checks.

duxup 5y ago

The only thing I really notice is the settings ... app, box, thing, (not sure what to call it even) is wonky. Seems to get wonky-er all the time. But I'm hardly ever in there. That's really the major change I notice. The little UI changes in menu or task bar I find easy enough to just adjust and so forth whenever I need to do so. Mostly I just turn them off and doing so doesn't really bother me.

ulzeraj 5y ago
That reminds me there are two control panels. One with the trendy web page style (the pretty one) and the other using the old Windows 7 style (the useful control panel). And I suspect they know its terrible. What other reason would they reserve the the good stuff like the LTSC version to premium enterprise contracts? People who purchase and run Windows Pro and Windows Home are literally paying to feed the monstrous Microsoft telemetry machine. And that's also the reason they don't care anymore if you ever register and activate.
- duxup 5y ago
  That's exactly what I thought when I ran into the old control panel. "Oh ... I see ... they know."
- the_only_law 5y ago
  It’s obnoxious because while it seems like they keep adding features to the former that I’m used to using the latter for. The other day, I was trying to set a static IP on a VM. Apparently the new Setting app has an option, but for whatever reason, it would change the IP settings. So I went into the classic network adapter options and set it there. That seemed to work, but the Settings app still didn’t show the adapter configured with a static IP. So I ran up config, and everything checked out thankfully. Old one is still cooler because you can add custom items in it :^)
- duskwuff 5y ago
  And even within the Control Panel (the older one), there's multiple visually distinct UIs: 1. First, there's "Windows 7 style" applets like "File History", "Power Options", and "Programs and Features". I'm not sure how to summarize these beyond that they have a resizable window and usually have some options in a sidebar on the left, but they all have a visually consistent look (which was a lot more obvious before Windows 10). 2. Next, some Windows 7 era applets use a different interface which displays in a (mock) file browser, like "Devices and Printers" or "Fonts". 3. Then there's some older applets which use a Windows XP-era interface in a small, fixed-size window with tabs at the top, like "Date and Time" or "Mouse". 4. Finally, there are a few applets which have a completely unique interface, like "Indexing Options" or "Device Manager". 5. Oh, and I forgot to mention: some of the applets in the Control Panel open up a Settings applet when clicked, like "System" and "Taskbar". But even this isn't consistent; some applets in Settings, like "Mouse" have a "additional settings" link on the right which opens the Control Panel applet when clicked. Confused yet? Don't worry, the next version of Windows will assuredly find a way to make it worse.
  - alexvoda 5y ago
    1 and 2 are part of the same Vista/7 era Control Panel UI. 3 I believe is even older than that, maybe since 95 4 is the MMC. The MMC is actually great and I am disaponted to see it lose favor. You can even use the MMC to remotely admin other computers. The MMC is somethig I miss on other OSs. Microsoft should have really invested time in creating template projects used to migrate from the 95 era panels to the Vista/7 era panels. And then again for Win10. Because even if they migrate all windows settings to new panels they are still stuck with 3rd party panels using the old infrastructure (Synaptics, Flash, others still use the 95 era panels). And now migration across all the versions means a complete rewrite effort. And I am not even sure it is possible in all cases. So they are stuck maintaining old infrastructure. Mac OS fairs better because they had a clean break from 9 to X. And eventually X had pluggable 3rd party panels which proved to be a pain during the transition from 32bit to 64bit. Did Mac OS 9 and earlier have plugable 3rd party panels? Linux for a long time just didn't care. I belive KDE Plasma has this capability since 5 (not sure it was there in 4). It is the same with Windows (File) Explorer. It is incredibly plugable. Way more than alternatives on other OSs. There are namespace extensions, context menu extensions, icon overlay extensions, online storage support (since 10), etc.. Being stuck with supporting old infrastructure is a consequence of creating that infrastructure in the first place. The less you create the less you have to maintain. But, as a user, I will take more over less.

sneak 5y ago

> Right out of the bat there is a page where you need to uncheck all the spyware crap and there are so many it scrolls. This also doesn't even remotely turn off all of the spyware and phone-home, and you have to run something like WPD after install to finish the job.

passivate 5y ago

Our IT has given us deployment sticks for W10 Pro which format/install/deploy the OS using one script in about 5 minutes with zero nags/prompts anything else. It also sets up a default (non-cloud) user. I think its called an 'unattended' setup. So it definitely can be done. I think MS needs to provide a "Yes, I know what I'm doing, go away" Windows ISO.

jiriro 5y ago
Could you please elaborate on how that usb stick was made? :-) Time to time I need to do some Windows config/deployment – shortcuts, printers, make the damned NumLock ON, set those PDFs to open NOT in that ducked Edge;) and so on .. But this is not my top skill and after googling for some time I’d kill for a spot on advice.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- JackGreyhat 5y ago
  It can be a quite complex process. It also tends to break easily if not done right. Most organizations that deploy large amounts of systems will create Windows images with tools like Microsoft SCCM for example. This also works: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/96683-create-media-automated-unattended-install-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/96683-create-media-autom...
- dafzor 5y ago
  All that's really needed is to add a Provisioning package to any normal usb install stick. Microsoft offers a UI based editor that allows you set the options you want as well as add scripts to be run. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/provisioning-packages/provisioning-packages https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/provi...

akiselev 5y ago

That stupid weather widget and the Xbox overlay randomly popping up, completely disabling input without an obvious way to get out (some random win key combo), finally drove me to dump Windows as a daily driver. It even drove me to get some real work done on my passion project so I'd never have to use a Windows VM for CAD ever again. I lived through Micro$oft but I was too inexperienced to understand the hate directed towards Microsoft. It's ironic that I only started to feel it now that they've changed their tune on the open source/dev stuff. To add insult to injury, shortly after, I got an email with this subject line from google: *> akiselev, take the next step on your Linux by confirming your Google Account settings

user5994461 5y ago
To turn off the weather. Right click on the task bar, news and interests, turn off.
- TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
  If only that were the only step to stop the new Windows install spam.
moogly 5y ago
What Xbox overlay and what weather widget? Running 21H1 and never seen any of those.
- hcs 5y ago
  Windows Logo Key + G, the "Xbox Game Bar".
  - moogly 5y ago
    Ah, I see. Well. I disabled that the first time I installed Windows 10, back... I don't know how many years ago. It's still disabled. Also, maybe the fact that I uninstalled all pre-installed apps I knew would never use made it so I skipped out on future weather widgets. I don't have a weather app for instance, because I'll just look out my window instead.

ROARosen 5y ago

> cringe "we are working hang on it" messages Ha! My favorite one is: "Leave everything to us". You get it splattered across the screen before the desktop loads for the firs time. It always gets me thinking, is it not enough for you guys to track me around, force send diagnostics data, foist updates upon me, now you want me to leave everything you!?

bydo 5y ago

There was even one release of Windows 10 Home where you couldn't create a local account, unless you tricked it by not connecting to a network. Not sure if this is still the case with current builds or if they came to their senses. And good luck if you did create one and you also happen to use Office 365, because now you have two Microsoft accounts, possibly with the same email address, that use the same login page, and that's not confusing at all.

breakingcups 5y ago
Yeah, that's still the case.
pjerem 5y ago
Oh did you say just TWO ? Nah. I created a Microsoft account with my work mail adress. Then a Windows 10 account with this stupid installer. So I did get two accounts. But that was before my employer decided to create « corporate » Microsoft accounts for everyone. That’s 3 accounts. With the same mail address. Now I just avoid to log in with those accounts because I don’t even understand how it even works.
- dafzor 5y ago
  On https://account.microsoft.com/profile https://account.microsoft.com/profile you can change your email address for the account, changing them to a new email account will let you "unlink" them from your work email.

lostlogin 5y ago

> Personally I don't think so. Every time I download and install from an Windows ISO it seems worse. I’ve just been in a dark pit while trying to get a thunderbolt to sfp+ adapter working with ESXi. I ended up updating it via Windows but also tested it in various Ubuntu versions and macOS. Both Windows and Ubuntu install processes were great compared to my very distant memory of install processes - Windows was finicky about the state of the drive it went onto and didn’t want to be on an external drive, but that was it. The application Microsoft has made for creating boot disks is really nice. Apple in particular could learn a thing or two. Drivers though, my god. If the driver isn’t signed by Microsoft, it is a horror in Windows. Never got the dongle going in Esxi, it worked perfectly out the box for Apple and nearly the same for Ubuntu (though has to be unplugged and replugged after a reboot, and required manual config of mtu and network parameters. DHCP wouldn’t stick). I got full functionality from Windows after a series of driver updates, interspaced with firmware updates and removal of security checks.