5 ms·

I see you have moved the goalposts and have not bothered to actually provide any citations for the numbers from your original posted. Your own link indicates

by shkkmo 5y ago

I see you have moved the goalposts and have not bothered to actually provide any citations for the numbers from your original posted. Your own link indicates that Netherlands taxes are only slightly above average for OECD countries given their GDP. This would indicate that your original claims were false. The reason why health care costs are lower is a different topic. Your original claim about relative healthcare costs was clearly false.

belter 5y ago
And you are sticking to tables of income and tax rates and claiming that income tax is 51% not 80 or 85%. At the same you decide to ignore my claim was the overall earning you do over you life will be taken away by the state. Surely you can understand the concept of overall tax burden. Although I am simplifying here and not making payroll salary calculation you certainly understand the example like this one. You earn 4000 EUR salary.A very good manager level salary in the Netherlands. Before you get your salary on your hands the state, takes you 51% so you receive 1960 EUR on hands. ( This example is not 100% correct as it is a progressive tax, but lets run with it for the sake of example) From these 1960 EUR you will pay, for a monthly health insurance for a family of three 300 to 350 EUR ( typical) so you are left with 1610 EUR. If you have a modest sized car you are paying 133 EUR per month on average per road tax and overall 80 EUR per month on car insurance. For every kilometer that you drive you are paying a tax on your fuel that is 70 to 80% of your fuel cost as road tax. Remember road maintenance and all those state benefits were supposed to be paid from the 51% of you already provided to the state. Assuming no kilometres driven,while your car sits idle,you are now down to 1397 EUR. Now despite the fact that you already paid to the state 51% they want nothing to do with your water, electricity, garbage collection. For that your local taxes will take you on average another 150 EUR per month, depending on were you live so you are now down to 1247 EUR. We are not done yet because, do you have a dog ? You have to pay tax on it: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/aangifte_doen/andere_belastingen/hondenbelasting/hondenbelasting https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/... Note from these 1247 EUR will be paying VAT at 21% to live. Do you need an Internet connection and some studies for improvement ? Take another 100 EUR per month to out you at 1100 EUR. If you save any money you will have to pay tax on that. Its called the "Taxation on income from savings and investments" In the Netherlands is based on the assumption that people will have a certain taxable return on their net capital. The actual level of return (for example interest, dividend, capital gains or losses) is NOT relevant. No concern if the bank is ( at it is the case at the moment) providing you with a negative interest rate. If from the 500 to 600 EUR you will be left to live, you somewhow are able to accumulate any assets dont worry the state will take you remaining in inherithance tax. Here the rates for 2021: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/erfbelasting/content/tarieven-erfbelasting https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/erfbelasti... Believe or no, there are are other taxes, but now I got tired of writing and I want reiterate my point. There is a Massive overall tax burden of the lifetime of a citizen and frankly the only reason people do not protest is, as I stated that you are either on the side of the receiving state benefits sad misery or middle class enjoying your stated super "high quality of life.". It is certainly much better than undeveloped countries but that is also another discussion and also moving the goal posts...Overall tax burden is my concern here.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  You can do all the back of the napkin math you want, that still isn't a citation. I have seen too much bad back of the napkin math where small under/overestimations add up to numbers that don't actually match reality. > And you are sticking to tables of income and tax rates and claiming that income tax is 51% not 80 or 85%. At the same you decide to ignore my claim was the overall earning you do over you life will be taken away by the state. Surely you can understand the concept of overall tax burden. I was looking at the numbers from the other page that you posted that showed that the TOTAL tax burden at ALL levels of government vs GPD was ~36% which was slightly higher than the OECD average which was 34%. That places it in the middle of the pack for Europe.
- EvilEy3 5y ago
  You're listing car and dog like it's some kind of requirement. I couldn't be less happy to live in a society that has less dogs and less cars.
  - belter 5y ago
    And your comment shows exactly the attitude this tax policy is supposed to inspire. Why do anything or have anything, you do not need it. I believe it was in the republic of Plato. There is some comment about how in ancient Greece, Slaves used to complain a lot about how severe their Master was, or praise the Master by how friendly it was to them. However they never complained about slavery itself...

by shkkmo 5y ago

belter 5y ago

And you are sticking to tables of income and tax rates and claiming that income tax is 51% not 80 or 85%. At the same you decide to ignore my claim was the overall earning you do over you life will be taken away by the state. Surely you can understand the concept of overall tax burden. Although I am simplifying here and not making payroll salary calculation you certainly understand the example like this one. You earn 4000 EUR salary.A very good manager level salary in the Netherlands. Before you get your salary on your hands the state, takes you 51% so you receive 1960 EUR on hands. ( This example is not 100% correct as it is a progressive tax, but lets run with it for the sake of example) From these 1960 EUR you will pay, for a monthly health insurance for a family of three 300 to 350 EUR ( typical) so you are left with 1610 EUR. If you have a modest sized car you are paying 133 EUR per month on average per road tax and overall 80 EUR per month on car insurance. For every kilometer that you drive you are paying a tax on your fuel that is 70 to 80% of your fuel cost as road tax. Remember road maintenance and all those state benefits were supposed to be paid from the 51% of you already provided to the state. Assuming no kilometres driven,while your car sits idle,you are now down to 1397 EUR. Now despite the fact that you already paid to the state 51% they want nothing to do with your water, electricity, garbage collection. For that your local taxes will take you on average another 150 EUR per month, depending on were you live so you are now down to 1247 EUR. We are not done yet because, do you have a dog ? You have to pay tax on it: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/aangifte_doen/andere_belastingen/hondenbelasting/hondenbelasting https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/... Note from these 1247 EUR will be paying VAT at 21% to live. Do you need an Internet connection and some studies for improvement ? Take another 100 EUR per month to out you at 1100 EUR. If you save any money you will have to pay tax on that. Its called the "Taxation on income from savings and investments" In the Netherlands is based on the assumption that people will have a certain taxable return on their net capital. The actual level of return (for example interest, dividend, capital gains or losses) is NOT relevant. No concern if the bank is ( at it is the case at the moment) providing you with a negative interest rate. If from the 500 to 600 EUR you will be left to live, you somewhow are able to accumulate any assets dont worry the state will take you remaining in inherithance tax. Here the rates for 2021: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/erfbelasting/content/tarieven-erfbelasting https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/erfbelasti... Believe or no, there are are other taxes, but now I got tired of writing and I want reiterate my point. There is a Massive overall tax burden of the lifetime of a citizen and frankly the only reason people do not protest is, as I stated that you are either on the side of the receiving state benefits sad misery or middle class enjoying your stated super "high quality of life.". It is certainly much better than undeveloped countries but that is also another discussion and also moving the goal posts...Overall tax burden is my concern here.

shkkmo 5y ago
You can do all the back of the napkin math you want, that still isn't a citation. I have seen too much bad back of the napkin math where small under/overestimations add up to numbers that don't actually match reality. > And you are sticking to tables of income and tax rates and claiming that income tax is 51% not 80 or 85%. At the same you decide to ignore my claim was the overall earning you do over you life will be taken away by the state. Surely you can understand the concept of overall tax burden. I was looking at the numbers from the other page that you posted that showed that the TOTAL tax burden at ALL levels of government vs GPD was ~36% which was slightly higher than the OECD average which was 34%. That places it in the middle of the pack for Europe.
EvilEy3 5y ago
You're listing car and dog like it's some kind of requirement. I couldn't be less happy to live in a society that has less dogs and less cars.
- belter 5y ago
  And your comment shows exactly the attitude this tax policy is supposed to inspire. Why do anything or have anything, you do not need it. I believe it was in the republic of Plato. There is some comment about how in ancient Greece, Slaves used to complain a lot about how severe their Master was, or praise the Master by how friendly it was to them. However they never complained about slavery itself...