6 ms·
Can you really rescind an offer after it has been signed? Wouldn't they have to have terminated the contract instead? (Not that it makes a difference in practic
by HotHotLava 5y ago
Can you really rescind an offer after it has been signed? Wouldn't they have to have terminated the contract instead? (Not that it makes a difference in practice unless there's a mandatory termination period)
- idiotsecant 5y agoIs it common to have an actual contract? Every gig I've ever had is at will.
- mindslight 5y agoAt will employment still generally has a contract.
- idiotsecant 5y agoLike, as in something you signed binding on both parties? I don't think I've ever had such a thing.
- garciasn 5y agoUsually one-sided with the employer holding most of the advantage by restrictive NDAs that can last for a year or more.
- dragonwriter 5y agoTechnically, if you are employed, you have a contract, but the default terms of that contract in an at-will jurisdiction (e.g., every US state and D.C., at least) include the option for either side to terminate at will, hence the name. Since the contract is terminable at will, reliance on it continuing into the future is generally unreasonable, and costs incurred based on such reliance will not generally be recoverable in the event it is terminated sooner than you expected.
- ksec 5y agoSorry, it is uncommon to have contract in US for Jobs? Or is this Tech specific ? Edit: I had to look it up. US is indeed very business friendly..... May be a little too friendly.
- HotHotLava 5y agoI'm confused, what do get instead in the US when you're employed? I didn't know that contracts are not universal, over here I've never heard of anyone not having a contract.
- idiotsecant 5y agoWhat do we have instead? I don't know... You show up for work and they pay you money until one of the two parties decides to stop doing that.
- whimsicalism 5y agoIn the US, contracts like this aren't really a thing for tech employees. You are an at-will employee, offer can be rescinded or reneged at any time for any reason unless it is specifically a prohibited reason.
- moralestapia 5y agoDoes it work both ways?
- milesdyson_phd 5y agoYes, it's a two-way street. Businesses do tend to benefit the most though
- lawnchair_larry 5y agoNah, candidates ghost all the time.
- rsj_hn 5y ago> Businesses do tend to benefit the most though Why do you think businesses tend to be benefit the most? There are historically twice as many quits as separations, so workers are twice as likely to use "at will employment" to leave then having the Business use it to fire them. I can't think of any data to support the notion that the bulk of the benefits are not borne by workers, but if you have some, I'd be interested in hearing it.
- EdwardDiego 5y agoYou know that people with contracts can quit a job also, right?
- rsj_hn 5y agoYou do understand that people with contracts are also laid off, right? The question is whether you get any better terms or are restricted in how you do something (for example, waiting for a period of time to end or providing additional compensation)
- aksss 5y agoEmployment contracts are very rare in corporate employment for most positions, whether tech, accounting, etc, with the exception of course being Collective Bargaining Agreements and some 'reputational' positions like the CEO. Such contracts, like at-will employment, balance interests and are too 'double-edged swords' themselves. So offers for at-will employment can be rescinded, though they do cost an organization - time wasted, restarting candidate search, loss of productivity, etc. Usually not done flippantly at a competent and prudent organization. Stripe may be neither or it may have had a great reason that made a lot of internal sense. We'll probably never know.
- staticautomatic 5y agoThere’s still promissory estoppel, though.
- aksss 5y agoIs there? I literally have no idea how many states respect that doctrine wrt at-will employment, particularly outside of CA. The limits to PE claims are based on your lost income from previous job, not compensation you would have received (which a contract dispute would theoretically avail to you). Right?
- staticautomatic 5y agoSure. All US states recognize promissory estoppel doctrine, and I'm not aware of any state statues which specifically bar it in employment cases. Damages in a PE case-- "reliance" damages-- could certainly include lost income from a job you quit in reliance on an offer from another employer. But they could also include any other harm you suffered by virtue of relying on it (relocation expenses would be a canonical example here). Yes, those damages would also be available in a breach of contract case. Source: Myself (More than a decade consulting on contract and employment litigation; currently a law student; just got an A in contract law).
- aksss 5y ago
- olliej 5y agoIn right to work states you can, because the definition of right to work is inexplicably that you can be fired at will without any justification needed.
- bradknowles 5y agoYou can do whatever you want, if you’re willing to take the risk of a long court battle. That’s a lot easier for big companies to do as compared to “natural persons”. For us living, breathing “natural persons”, are you willing to take on what might be a decade-long court battle, just to get a small amount of money or force them to employ you for a certain amount of time? The incentives here are very disproportionate.