3 ms·

Abertay student cleared after being investigated for saying women have vaginas

1 points by leephillips 5y ago

jfengel 5y ago
Sigh. Headline is deliberately begging the question. The question at hand was about trans people, and their participation in women's sports. It's a legitimate question, and not aided by simplistic statements that deny the existence of trans people. It's a class about gender, women, and the law. It's not helpful to walk in and insist that your definition of gender is the only valid one. The student was investigated not for the "unacceptable opinion" but for being confrontational in class. They decided that she wasn't, but they considered the complaint legitimate enough to investigate.
- leephillips 5y ago
  Well, I wasn’t in the seminar, but every report I’ve seen uses the same headline: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-investigated-after-saying-women-have-vaginas-is-cleared-qcggvm2c8 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-investigated-afte... https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lisa-keogh-abertay-university-women-have-vaginas-investigation-cleared-121523888.html https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lisa-keogh-abertay-university-wome... Of course reporters are always copying from each other, so that doesn’t mean much. But the second report above says that she was cleared of misbehaving in class. So it certainly seems as if her “confrontational” behavior consisted in stating obvious truths that some people were distressed to hear—including the vagina thing. So the headlines are not begging any question. They’re really just reporting the facts.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    It's not an obvious truth. That's the point. Not all women have vaginas. Not all people with vaginas are women. And even if you don't want to accept that trans women are women, you can't do so in a class about trans issues without being confrontational. That was the entire point of the class. Insisting that it has to be an obvious truth, in the context of that class, means that you're not listening. And they may have decided that "not listening" isn't sufficient reason for disciplinary action. But it's poor performance in class.
    - leephillips 5y ago
      So her “confrontational” behavior consisted, in your description, of saying heretical things; things that she believed to be true. Got it.
      - jfengel 5y ago
        Yes, you got me. You understood it perfectly. Congratulations.

1 points by leephillips 5y ago

Sigh. Headline is deliberately begging the question. The question at hand was about trans people, and their participation in women's sports. It's a legitimate question, and not aided by simplistic statements that deny the existence of trans people. It's a class about gender, women, and the law. It's not helpful to walk in and insist that your definition of gender is the only valid one. The student was investigated not for the "unacceptable opinion" but for being confrontational in class. They decided that she wasn't, but they considered the complaint legitimate enough to investigate.

leephillips 5y ago
Well, I wasn’t in the seminar, but every report I’ve seen uses the same headline: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-investigated-after-saying-women-have-vaginas-is-cleared-qcggvm2c8 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-investigated-afte... https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lisa-keogh-abertay-university-women-have-vaginas-investigation-cleared-121523888.html https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lisa-keogh-abertay-university-wome... Of course reporters are always copying from each other, so that doesn’t mean much. But the second report above says that she was cleared of misbehaving in class. So it certainly seems as if her “confrontational” behavior consisted in stating obvious truths that some people were distressed to hear—including the vagina thing. So the headlines are not begging any question. They’re really just reporting the facts.
- jfengel 5y ago
  It's not an obvious truth. That's the point. Not all women have vaginas. Not all people with vaginas are women. And even if you don't want to accept that trans women are women, you can't do so in a class about trans issues without being confrontational. That was the entire point of the class. Insisting that it has to be an obvious truth, in the context of that class, means that you're not listening. And they may have decided that "not listening" isn't sufficient reason for disciplinary action. But it's poor performance in class.
  - leephillips 5y ago
    So her “confrontational” behavior consisted, in your description, of saying heretical things; things that she believed to be true. Got it.
    - jfengel 5y ago
      Yes, you got me. You understood it perfectly. Congratulations.