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It's less about not having good jobs more about: 1. Most want to start business and become rich, not work for someone else. Starting business is difficult, nee

It's less about not having good jobs more about: 1. Most want to start business and become rich, not work for someone else. Starting business is difficult, needs lots of work, even if you are smart and hardworking, have capital to start, still you need social skills which present generation didn't develop, so getting along with others and leading others is still difficult which limits the success. 2. Anything you'll come up, there are guys who are already doing it better. 3. Work hard for what!? Beyond basic needs, even in dating women demand millionaires, average Joes are treated like disposable good for nothing who women say are creeps because they don't have money to build their IG brand and devour women with lavish gifts. At the end of day, most people simply will not be motivated to take part in such system now that internet makes it possible for you to remotely live any life you dream of living even if it's only through some YouTube. A lot of things now seem less enticing. Even guys who society might say are successful can't afford real estate at today's price, only way to afford considerable land is to move away from cities but moving away from cities also takes away your income source. All these reasons are why I don't hustle hard anymore. I just try to make enough to coast in life and explore my hobbies, not working hard to get rich or any such goal. Because I don't really see how more money will change my life.

_fat_santa 5y ago
I agree with your first two points. Starting a business is hard, you'll probably fail (statistically) and there is likely someone else doing it better than you already. But part of starting a business is looking at that adversity and doing it anyways. Your third point about dating, I couldn't disagree more. If you go on social media you will see arguments very similar to the one you made, basically if you aren't an athlete/millionaire/etc, don't even bother. I think these arguments come from a bitter place and as a result generalize women in general. I'm an average looking dude, certainly not a millionaire, but I go on dates pretty much every week with different women. I found that it's all about just putting yourself out there.
- chewz 5y ago
  There is big difference between going on dates every week and finding a woman that will treat you as a potential life partner and father for her children...
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    I think this is a huge distinction. Stable career prospects are a huge factor in choosing a partner. And the HN poster you are replying to probably has better career prospects than most. The millionaire talking point seems like a distraction. The point is that many men have zero career prospects, and probably have a pretty terrible dating pool as a result. This all hangs together, no job, no partner, no kids, no home.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Where do you live? This has not been my experience on the west coast. You might be underselling yourself. In any major city, being average isn’t sufficient. You’re just swiped over for the next guy who is above average. (They always exist on the apps, nearly infinite amount)
  - The5thElephant 5y ago
    Somehow there are an endless number of men who are above average? Isn't that a self defeating point and mathematically impossible? You realize many women feel this exact same way about being ignored because men just want models out of their league?
    - bradlys 5y ago
      On dating apps, there are to most people an endless amount. You can just keep swiping. Very few people will swipe through the 200k+ dating profiles available in their area. Thus, endless… Regardless of how women feel men are acting towards them, the stats don’t lie, women receive far more swipes than men. Something like 36x more.
  - _fat_santa 5y ago
    I live over on the East Coast. I'd say that I look average, but its also about the profile and how you sell yourself. (This is pure speculation based on my experiences) Out here I've noticed that Tinder and Bumble are just terrible to use, Hinge though seems to be the sweet spot. The problem I see with Tinder and Hinge is with the swiping, it turns it into a game of sorts where you're playing whose post attractive based on the number of points (matches) you get. With how Hinge is setup, I get fewer matches, but of those matches, I end up going on first dates much more often. I also found that it's about playing the algorithm a bit and making sure your profile is setup right, think of it in terms conversion rate (from being in the "This person liked you" section to matching with someone). Before I started having success I went through probably 10+ iterations and tweaks to my profile to see what worked and what didn't. I also found that sometimes the algorithm just said F you and pushed me down to the bottom of the stack. In that case delete your profile and recreate it, I've had to do this once.
The5thElephant 5y ago
This is a very pessimistic and distorted take on things. 1. From what I have seen most people want a job that pays for their lifestyle and isn't soul destroying. Sure people fantasize about becoming a successful entrepreneur, but certainly not most and not enough to give up on work in general. 3. This is frankly ridiculous and such a blatantly false view of what women want that it borders on incel philosophy. It appears entirely based on the extremely exaggerated and polarized views seen on social media rather than the far more moderate and balanced views the average person you come across will have. Most women do not demand millionaires. This is readily apparent if you talk to real women instead of only watching TikTok and Instagram models.
MyHypatia 5y ago
>> Even in dating women demand millionaires, average Joes are treated like disposable good for nothing who women say are creeps because they don't have money to build their IG brand and devour women with lavish gifts. This is a ridiculous caricature of women. Most women aren't spending their time building IG brands, counting lavish gifts, and petulantly demanding millionaires. This sounds like a cartoon villain or something from a reality TV show. Most women are trying to find their place in the world, figure out their goals, establish a career with reasonable prospects, work on hobbies, create a support network of friends, and hopefully find a partner to start a family. If your attitude towards women is that they are money-hungry, delusionally entitled, and over-demanding then I'm not surprised they don't waste their time trying to convince you otherwise. They are busy spending time with people and looking for partners who don't treat them like delusional, spoiled children.
- imjustsaying 5y ago
  >This is a ridiculous caricature of women. Most women aren't spending their time building IG brands, counting lavish gifts, and petulantly demanding millionaires. This sounds like a cartoon villain or something from a reality TV show. yes but this accurate in describing what the last couple women I was with were like. they were both women who approached me first, whatever that might tell you.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

_fat_santa 5y ago

I agree with your first two points. Starting a business is hard, you'll probably fail (statistically) and there is likely someone else doing it better than you already. But part of starting a business is looking at that adversity and doing it anyways. Your third point about dating, I couldn't disagree more. If you go on social media you will see arguments very similar to the one you made, basically if you aren't an athlete/millionaire/etc, don't even bother. I think these arguments come from a bitter place and as a result generalize women in general. I'm an average looking dude, certainly not a millionaire, but I go on dates pretty much every week with different women. I found that it's all about just putting yourself out there.

chewz 5y ago
There is big difference between going on dates every week and finding a woman that will treat you as a potential life partner and father for her children...
- dougmwne 5y ago
  I think this is a huge distinction. Stable career prospects are a huge factor in choosing a partner. And the HN poster you are replying to probably has better career prospects than most. The millionaire talking point seems like a distraction. The point is that many men have zero career prospects, and probably have a pretty terrible dating pool as a result. This all hangs together, no job, no partner, no kids, no home.
bradlys 5y ago
Where do you live? This has not been my experience on the west coast. You might be underselling yourself. In any major city, being average isn’t sufficient. You’re just swiped over for the next guy who is above average. (They always exist on the apps, nearly infinite amount)
- The5thElephant 5y ago
  Somehow there are an endless number of men who are above average? Isn't that a self defeating point and mathematically impossible? You realize many women feel this exact same way about being ignored because men just want models out of their league?
  - bradlys 5y ago
    On dating apps, there are to most people an endless amount. You can just keep swiping. Very few people will swipe through the 200k+ dating profiles available in their area. Thus, endless… Regardless of how women feel men are acting towards them, the stats don’t lie, women receive far more swipes than men. Something like 36x more.
- _fat_santa 5y ago
  I live over on the East Coast. I'd say that I look average, but its also about the profile and how you sell yourself. (This is pure speculation based on my experiences) Out here I've noticed that Tinder and Bumble are just terrible to use, Hinge though seems to be the sweet spot. The problem I see with Tinder and Hinge is with the swiping, it turns it into a game of sorts where you're playing whose post attractive based on the number of points (matches) you get. With how Hinge is setup, I get fewer matches, but of those matches, I end up going on first dates much more often. I also found that it's about playing the algorithm a bit and making sure your profile is setup right, think of it in terms conversion rate (from being in the "This person liked you" section to matching with someone). Before I started having success I went through probably 10+ iterations and tweaks to my profile to see what worked and what didn't. I also found that sometimes the algorithm just said F you and pushed me down to the bottom of the stack. In that case delete your profile and recreate it, I've had to do this once.

The5thElephant 5y ago

This is a very pessimistic and distorted take on things. 1. From what I have seen most people want a job that pays for their lifestyle and isn't soul destroying. Sure people fantasize about becoming a successful entrepreneur, but certainly not most and not enough to give up on work in general. 3. This is frankly ridiculous and such a blatantly false view of what women want that it borders on incel philosophy. It appears entirely based on the extremely exaggerated and polarized views seen on social media rather than the far more moderate and balanced views the average person you come across will have. Most women do not demand millionaires. This is readily apparent if you talk to real women instead of only watching TikTok and Instagram models.

MyHypatia 5y ago

>> Even in dating women demand millionaires, average Joes are treated like disposable good for nothing who women say are creeps because they don't have money to build their IG brand and devour women with lavish gifts. This is a ridiculous caricature of women. Most women aren't spending their time building IG brands, counting lavish gifts, and petulantly demanding millionaires. This sounds like a cartoon villain or something from a reality TV show. Most women are trying to find their place in the world, figure out their goals, establish a career with reasonable prospects, work on hobbies, create a support network of friends, and hopefully find a partner to start a family. If your attitude towards women is that they are money-hungry, delusionally entitled, and over-demanding then I'm not surprised they don't waste their time trying to convince you otherwise. They are busy spending time with people and looking for partners who don't treat them like delusional, spoiled children.

imjustsaying 5y ago
>This is a ridiculous caricature of women. Most women aren't spending their time building IG brands, counting lavish gifts, and petulantly demanding millionaires. This sounds like a cartoon villain or something from a reality TV show. yes but this accurate in describing what the last couple women I was with were like. they were both women who approached me first, whatever that might tell you.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]