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This seems like a kind rational economic choice. If there are not enough good jobs that can support independent living, providing for a spouse, buying a home or

This seems like a kind rational economic choice. If there are not enough good jobs that can support independent living, providing for a spouse, buying a home or raising a family, then staying home with the easy accomplishment of video games makes sense. Most people never live outside their home states and can't afford to leave the support network of their family and close friends. If you grew up in a medium or high cost of living area, then you're sort of stuck. I work in tech and still, owning a home seems pretty distant, so I can't imagine how it must be for someone without job skills.

AndrewUnmuted 5y ago
Until this year, I lived in the same place I grew up, one of the highest cost-of-living places on the planet: NYC. Until the pandemic, the goal of owning a home did seem totally out of reach for me, even with my remote SV tech job salary. Then I moved to an unincorporated community in TN, because NYC's lockdowns, mask mandates, and general cultural decay was too much for me to bear - financially, emotionally, and even ethically. I now own 15 acres of land with two houses on it. The median income in this part is <40k/yr and yet it's safer, friendlier, healthier, and best of all, much freer. High cost of living is a true killer of communities and the more expensive your area is, it's quite likely it's also a lot less free. If you can leave the major cities in the US, it's possible for life to become a whole lot nicer.
- olivierestsage 5y ago
  Unsure why you're getting downvoted for this -- it makes good sense, and many could benefit from this kind of thing. I have a friend who moved from NYC to Ohio recently. He was bellyaching about it a lot (the move was for work), since he thought he would be so sad to leave the cultural opportunities of NYC, etc. Instead he has found that a) Ohio wasn't so bad after all, b) his stress-related conditions have evaporated, and c) he has more time to pursue what he loves doing in that environment.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    > Unsure why you're getting downvoted for this Any hint that dense urban living is not the optimal lifestyle for everyone gets downvoted here. For example, here's my super-controversial anecdote from yesterday, that people took time out of their day to try to bury: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27450896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27450896
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Well there's also the angle of people moving from the big city into a small rural community and gentrifying it. A good friend of mine had to deal with this trend in Bozeman and was ultimately pretty much forced out by it.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        There's definitely a tension between bringing money and people into communities that need them and bringing a lot of money and people and different preferences into communities in a way that makes them less good for the people already there.
        dougmwne 5y ago
        A historical example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa#Islam_and_pilgrimage_to_Mecca https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa#Islam_and_pilgrim...
  - 1-6 5y ago
    Also, there may be blue-state vs red-state rivalry going on. OP basically moved from blue to red and is liking it.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  You gotta keep hyping up the big cities: talk about the usual cliches like the food, the movie scenes, the 'culture'. Keep cities popular so everybody stays there and leaves land in the countryside for the rest of us.
- eplanit 5y ago
  Be proud, you made a very wise and healthy decision.
- jdhn 5y ago
  Has there been any culture shock for you? As someone who grew up in NJ, I'm always interested in hearing how other tri-state area people deal with moving from an urban to a rural environment.
- gregimba 5y ago
  I plan to do the same in a couple years, my hometown is unaffordable, with tech like Starlink coming online and the pandemic making remote work more common I can foresee a subset of tech workers choosing this path if they feel alienated in the larger tech cities.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
I'm just now middle aged and even when I was a twenty-something I never felt as ambitious or as risk embracing as I was supposed to be. My father and grandfather got into way more trouble than I ever did, with just about every facet of their life. My stories are absolutely tame in comparison. It turns out the steady dopamine faucet is a stronger motivator than going out and trying to flirt, date, make friends, network, or hustle. Just spending time on the PC isn't even particularly fun, but as soon as someone proposes plans I suddenly feel like backing out and retreating back into my own world. I definitely sense this isn't "normal" for men and it's probably a consequence of modernity.
- listless 5y ago
  This is a troubling trend that I see in my sons and that I battle in myself. Why go out and compete for money, success and sex when those things are at your fingertips. I really think it’s as simple as “turn off the TV”. The problem is that the world is a hard place, and games/porn offer a “good enough” alternative that offsets the trouble of putting yourself out there. Sorry for making this thread weird by bringing porn in.
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    No, it's absolutely part of the equation. The internet has been an absolute game changer for how the human libido is satisfied. Pornography went from something rarely seen and socially awkward to acquire to something that is now ubiquitous, instant access, and even individualized. In fact, you have to go out of your way to avoid seeing sexual content on the internet.
    - esarbe 5y ago
      Or brains and reward-systems have evolved for an existence as semi-nomadic subsidence hunter-gatherers. We're not equipped to deal with "temptations" modern society has to offer. While porn might be a particularly good example, there's plenty of other traps as well. Social media, games, gambling, ... All that is geared towards maximized 'engagement', e.g. to make us as addicted as possible in as little time as possible. It plays into our worst tendencies. https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/
bobthechef 5y ago
"If there are not enough good jobs that can support independent living, providing for a spouse, buying a home or raising a family," This seems to be an issue across the board, at least in degrees, but that's because we live in an extractive oligarchy. This can't last forever. I just hope it doesn't lead to either revolution or socialism. We need to rethink our economic principles. Capitalism as state-sponsored usury or as consumerist decadence is not viable, just, or good. Recall that in the 1950s, the single income of a working father sufficed to support a wife and their many children (since birth rates were much higher then). You can't do that anymore. That seems like a massive regression. We may have more flavors of ice cream, but who cares if that comes at the price of the important stuff. I say this without idealizing those decades. Those are the decades, after all, that led us to where we are today. "then staying home with the easy accomplishment of video games makes sense." Well, it doesn't make sense from the perspective of human flourishing. There are other things that a person in that position can be doing rather than pissing his life away in masturbatory activities like video games. This speaks to a deeper demoralization in our society, and in this case, that of men, and not just those who are unemployed or living at home. Our culture sucks.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  The 1950's were an anomaly. Europe was in the doldrums, Asia was yet to develop. America had little competition for the resources it needed. I doubt those days are coming back any time soon. If anything its going to get worse as the rest of the world catches up and the dwindling resources people need are stretched between ever more people.
wolfretcrap 5y ago
It's less about not having good jobs more about: 1. Most want to start business and become rich, not work for someone else. Starting business is difficult, needs lots of work, even if you are smart and hardworking, have capital to start, still you need social skills which present generation didn't develop, so getting along with others and leading others is still difficult which limits the success. 2. Anything you'll come up, there are guys who are already doing it better. 3. Work hard for what!? Beyond basic needs, even in dating women demand millionaires, average Joes are treated like disposable good for nothing who women say are creeps because they don't have money to build their IG brand and devour women with lavish gifts. At the end of day, most people simply will not be motivated to take part in such system now that internet makes it possible for you to remotely live any life you dream of living even if it's only through some YouTube. A lot of things now seem less enticing. Even guys who society might say are successful can't afford real estate at today's price, only way to afford considerable land is to move away from cities but moving away from cities also takes away your income source. All these reasons are why I don't hustle hard anymore. I just try to make enough to coast in life and explore my hobbies, not working hard to get rich or any such goal. Because I don't really see how more money will change my life.
- _fat_santa 5y ago
  I agree with your first two points. Starting a business is hard, you'll probably fail (statistically) and there is likely someone else doing it better than you already. But part of starting a business is looking at that adversity and doing it anyways. Your third point about dating, I couldn't disagree more. If you go on social media you will see arguments very similar to the one you made, basically if you aren't an athlete/millionaire/etc, don't even bother. I think these arguments come from a bitter place and as a result generalize women in general. I'm an average looking dude, certainly not a millionaire, but I go on dates pretty much every week with different women. I found that it's all about just putting yourself out there.
  - chewz 5y ago
    There is big difference between going on dates every week and finding a woman that will treat you as a potential life partner and father for her children...

AndrewUnmuted 5y ago

Until this year, I lived in the same place I grew up, one of the highest cost-of-living places on the planet: NYC. Until the pandemic, the goal of owning a home did seem totally out of reach for me, even with my remote SV tech job salary. Then I moved to an unincorporated community in TN, because NYC's lockdowns, mask mandates, and general cultural decay was too much for me to bear - financially, emotionally, and even ethically. I now own 15 acres of land with two houses on it. The median income in this part is <40k/yr and yet it's safer, friendlier, healthier, and best of all, much freer. High cost of living is a true killer of communities and the more expensive your area is, it's quite likely it's also a lot less free. If you can leave the major cities in the US, it's possible for life to become a whole lot nicer.

olivierestsage 5y ago
Unsure why you're getting downvoted for this -- it makes good sense, and many could benefit from this kind of thing. I have a friend who moved from NYC to Ohio recently. He was bellyaching about it a lot (the move was for work), since he thought he would be so sad to leave the cultural opportunities of NYC, etc. Instead he has found that a) Ohio wasn't so bad after all, b) his stress-related conditions have evaporated, and c) he has more time to pursue what he loves doing in that environment.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  > Unsure why you're getting downvoted for this Any hint that dense urban living is not the optimal lifestyle for everyone gets downvoted here. For example, here's my super-controversial anecdote from yesterday, that people took time out of their day to try to bury: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27450896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27450896
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Well there's also the angle of people moving from the big city into a small rural community and gentrifying it. A good friend of mine had to deal with this trend in Bozeman and was ultimately pretty much forced out by it.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      There's definitely a tension between bringing money and people into communities that need them and bringing a lot of money and people and different preferences into communities in a way that makes them less good for the people already there.
      - dougmwne 5y ago
        A historical example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa#Islam_and_pilgrimage_to_Mecca https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa#Islam_and_pilgrim...
- 1-6 5y ago
  Also, there may be blue-state vs red-state rivalry going on. OP basically moved from blue to red and is liking it.
silicon2401 5y ago
You gotta keep hyping up the big cities: talk about the usual cliches like the food, the movie scenes, the 'culture'. Keep cities popular so everybody stays there and leaves land in the countryside for the rest of us.
eplanit 5y ago
Be proud, you made a very wise and healthy decision.
jdhn 5y ago
Has there been any culture shock for you? As someone who grew up in NJ, I'm always interested in hearing how other tri-state area people deal with moving from an urban to a rural environment.
gregimba 5y ago
I plan to do the same in a couple years, my hometown is unaffordable, with tech like Starlink coming online and the pandemic making remote work more common I can foresee a subset of tech workers choosing this path if they feel alienated in the larger tech cities.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

I'm just now middle aged and even when I was a twenty-something I never felt as ambitious or as risk embracing as I was supposed to be. My father and grandfather got into way more trouble than I ever did, with just about every facet of their life. My stories are absolutely tame in comparison. It turns out the steady dopamine faucet is a stronger motivator than going out and trying to flirt, date, make friends, network, or hustle. Just spending time on the PC isn't even particularly fun, but as soon as someone proposes plans I suddenly feel like backing out and retreating back into my own world. I definitely sense this isn't "normal" for men and it's probably a consequence of modernity.

listless 5y ago
This is a troubling trend that I see in my sons and that I battle in myself. Why go out and compete for money, success and sex when those things are at your fingertips. I really think it’s as simple as “turn off the TV”. The problem is that the world is a hard place, and games/porn offer a “good enough” alternative that offsets the trouble of putting yourself out there. Sorry for making this thread weird by bringing porn in.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  No, it's absolutely part of the equation. The internet has been an absolute game changer for how the human libido is satisfied. Pornography went from something rarely seen and socially awkward to acquire to something that is now ubiquitous, instant access, and even individualized. In fact, you have to go out of your way to avoid seeing sexual content on the internet.
  - esarbe 5y ago
    Or brains and reward-systems have evolved for an existence as semi-nomadic subsidence hunter-gatherers. We're not equipped to deal with "temptations" modern society has to offer. While porn might be a particularly good example, there's plenty of other traps as well. Social media, games, gambling, ... All that is geared towards maximized 'engagement', e.g. to make us as addicted as possible in as little time as possible. It plays into our worst tendencies. https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

bobthechef 5y ago

"If there are not enough good jobs that can support independent living, providing for a spouse, buying a home or raising a family," This seems to be an issue across the board, at least in degrees, but that's because we live in an extractive oligarchy. This can't last forever. I just hope it doesn't lead to either revolution or socialism. We need to rethink our economic principles. Capitalism as state-sponsored usury or as consumerist decadence is not viable, just, or good. Recall that in the 1950s, the single income of a working father sufficed to support a wife and their many children (since birth rates were much higher then). You can't do that anymore. That seems like a massive regression. We may have more flavors of ice cream, but who cares if that comes at the price of the important stuff. I say this without idealizing those decades. Those are the decades, after all, that led us to where we are today. "then staying home with the easy accomplishment of video games makes sense." Well, it doesn't make sense from the perspective of human flourishing. There are other things that a person in that position can be doing rather than pissing his life away in masturbatory activities like video games. This speaks to a deeper demoralization in our society, and in this case, that of men, and not just those who are unemployed or living at home. Our culture sucks.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
The 1950's were an anomaly. Europe was in the doldrums, Asia was yet to develop. America had little competition for the resources it needed. I doubt those days are coming back any time soon. If anything its going to get worse as the rest of the world catches up and the dwindling resources people need are stretched between ever more people.

wolfretcrap 5y ago

It's less about not having good jobs more about: 1. Most want to start business and become rich, not work for someone else. Starting business is difficult, needs lots of work, even if you are smart and hardworking, have capital to start, still you need social skills which present generation didn't develop, so getting along with others and leading others is still difficult which limits the success. 2. Anything you'll come up, there are guys who are already doing it better. 3. Work hard for what!? Beyond basic needs, even in dating women demand millionaires, average Joes are treated like disposable good for nothing who women say are creeps because they don't have money to build their IG brand and devour women with lavish gifts. At the end of day, most people simply will not be motivated to take part in such system now that internet makes it possible for you to remotely live any life you dream of living even if it's only through some YouTube. A lot of things now seem less enticing. Even guys who society might say are successful can't afford real estate at today's price, only way to afford considerable land is to move away from cities but moving away from cities also takes away your income source. All these reasons are why I don't hustle hard anymore. I just try to make enough to coast in life and explore my hobbies, not working hard to get rich or any such goal. Because I don't really see how more money will change my life.

_fat_santa 5y ago
I agree with your first two points. Starting a business is hard, you'll probably fail (statistically) and there is likely someone else doing it better than you already. But part of starting a business is looking at that adversity and doing it anyways. Your third point about dating, I couldn't disagree more. If you go on social media you will see arguments very similar to the one you made, basically if you aren't an athlete/millionaire/etc, don't even bother. I think these arguments come from a bitter place and as a result generalize women in general. I'm an average looking dude, certainly not a millionaire, but I go on dates pretty much every week with different women. I found that it's all about just putting yourself out there.
- chewz 5y ago
  There is big difference between going on dates every week and finding a woman that will treat you as a potential life partner and father for her children...