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>The idea that every able bodied person has to work is not supposed to be the way our society functions; at least not in the last 100,000 years. What? I was un

>The idea that every able bodied person has to work is not supposed to be the way our society functions; at least not in the last 100,000 years. What? I was under the impression that particularly in agrarian societies, everyone who was able to work, worked. Are you saying that surpluses allowed for a large class of people to just not work at all?

falcolas 5y ago
> Are you saying that surpluses allowed for a large class of people to just not work at all? Apparently this is the case today, since it's happening. Historically, agrarian societies did require everyone to work - twice a year. During harvesting and planting, as much manpower as possible was needed. The rest of the time didn't require 40h of work 50 weeks out of the year. It left time for leisure, building, crafting, etc. We're also not really in a traditional agrarian society today; most of the work required to create food is done by a vast minority of society using force-multiplying tools.
- ameister14 5y ago
  Most of the time that building and crafting was actually work. There is always something to do, even between planting and harvesting. Chop wood, split wood, stack wood. Fix things, knit a sweater, expand the farm, make a chair, whatever. It's all work. It's secondary to the primary and mandated work of farming, which is why a nobleman could call in the levies and go to war outside of planting or harvest season - they didn't care as much about the secondary parts - but for the average person that was also work. Yes, we're not a traditional agrarian society, or a hunter gatherer society - that's why "the last 100,000" years was a surprise. Essentially the op was saying every able bodied person has never been required to work. That ran counter to my understanding of history.
- watwut 5y ago
  > During harvesting and planting, as much manpower as possible was needed. The rest of the time didn't require 40h of work 50 weeks out of the year. It left time for leisure, building, crafting, etc. Because fabric for cloth magically appears from nothing and they sew themselves. Same for bedheets and such, they fill themselves.. And candles are gift from Santa, animals dont need care and houses fix themselves. Wood is just there, without preparing and cutting it. Yo and food also creates itself from grains, just like that. And small kids changed their own diapers and washed them. Speaking of which, did you tried washing without washing machine and modern chemistry? It used to be huge physically demanding work.
AngryData 5y ago
Agrarian societies had cyclic work. Some societies could be especially arduous, but the most successful and populated areas weren't. For large chunks at a time throughout the year the farming population didn't have more than daily chores and personal projects. But of course during planting and harvesting they would work their asses off. A lot of the rest of the time was personal preference. You could make your house bigger, or you could make beer to drink, you could make crafts for fun and sell a couple, or you could just dick around. You can see the large amount of extra time available in old religious and cultural holidays which were both numerous and often spanned many days or a week or more at a time. Huge chunks of time of the year that many modern workers wouldn't be allowed leave from work nor afford if they could. You can also see Egyptian pyramid construction which is now thought to have been mostly (but certainly not exclusively) volunteer farm workers in the off season in exchange for booze and "luxury" services like studied dentistry services that otherwise didn't exist in most of the rest of the world yet. If they wanted they could just live off their own share of crops and dick around most of the year though. Working on the pyramids was a bonus, not a requirement, and their scale proves how many free man hours they had to "waste" on stuff like building giant stone mounds and carvings and art and other religious practices. Their success is marked by how many excess man hours people had to dick around with.
- erhk 5y ago
  Romans had statues why cant we have our own arts revolution
  - tacocataco 5y ago
    Most art isn't profitable.
- mannerheim 5y ago
  > Working on the pyramids was a bonus, not a requirement Egypt used corvée labour to build the pyramids. It was certainly a requirement for those people.

falcolas 5y ago

> Are you saying that surpluses allowed for a large class of people to just not work at all? Apparently this is the case today, since it's happening. Historically, agrarian societies did require everyone to work - twice a year. During harvesting and planting, as much manpower as possible was needed. The rest of the time didn't require 40h of work 50 weeks out of the year. It left time for leisure, building, crafting, etc. We're also not really in a traditional agrarian society today; most of the work required to create food is done by a vast minority of society using force-multiplying tools.

ameister14 5y ago
Most of the time that building and crafting was actually work. There is always something to do, even between planting and harvesting. Chop wood, split wood, stack wood. Fix things, knit a sweater, expand the farm, make a chair, whatever. It's all work. It's secondary to the primary and mandated work of farming, which is why a nobleman could call in the levies and go to war outside of planting or harvest season - they didn't care as much about the secondary parts - but for the average person that was also work. Yes, we're not a traditional agrarian society, or a hunter gatherer society - that's why "the last 100,000" years was a surprise. Essentially the op was saying every able bodied person has never been required to work. That ran counter to my understanding of history.
watwut 5y ago
> During harvesting and planting, as much manpower as possible was needed. The rest of the time didn't require 40h of work 50 weeks out of the year. It left time for leisure, building, crafting, etc. Because fabric for cloth magically appears from nothing and they sew themselves. Same for bedheets and such, they fill themselves.. And candles are gift from Santa, animals dont need care and houses fix themselves. Wood is just there, without preparing and cutting it. Yo and food also creates itself from grains, just like that. And small kids changed their own diapers and washed them. Speaking of which, did you tried washing without washing machine and modern chemistry? It used to be huge physically demanding work.

AngryData 5y ago

Agrarian societies had cyclic work. Some societies could be especially arduous, but the most successful and populated areas weren't. For large chunks at a time throughout the year the farming population didn't have more than daily chores and personal projects. But of course during planting and harvesting they would work their asses off. A lot of the rest of the time was personal preference. You could make your house bigger, or you could make beer to drink, you could make crafts for fun and sell a couple, or you could just dick around. You can see the large amount of extra time available in old religious and cultural holidays which were both numerous and often spanned many days or a week or more at a time. Huge chunks of time of the year that many modern workers wouldn't be allowed leave from work nor afford if they could. You can also see Egyptian pyramid construction which is now thought to have been mostly (but certainly not exclusively) volunteer farm workers in the off season in exchange for booze and "luxury" services like studied dentistry services that otherwise didn't exist in most of the rest of the world yet. If they wanted they could just live off their own share of crops and dick around most of the year though. Working on the pyramids was a bonus, not a requirement, and their scale proves how many free man hours they had to "waste" on stuff like building giant stone mounds and carvings and art and other religious practices. Their success is marked by how many excess man hours people had to dick around with.

erhk 5y ago
Romans had statues why cant we have our own arts revolution
- tacocataco 5y ago
  Most art isn't profitable.
mannerheim 5y ago
> Working on the pyramids was a bonus, not a requirement Egypt used corvée labour to build the pyramids. It was certainly a requirement for those people.