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And even if they did, it's El Salvador. It's a tiny economy (Cleveland has a GDP 4X the entirety of El Salvador) in effectively a broken country. In 2015, 1 out

And even if they did, it's El Salvador. It's a tiny economy (Cleveland has a GDP 4X the entirety of El Salvador) in effectively a broken country. In 2015, 1 out of 1000 people was murdered in a single year. Pretty weird seeing the BTC crew all crowing about that kind of sad endorsement of a desperate government.

dadoge 5y ago
Man, wow. What if, like, you know, solving problems like 70% of the population not having a bank could actually reduce crime. Bitcoin is a pretty easy fix for that problem. And “it’s a tiny country”…like do they not deserve a better life since they have such a small gdp. This is the most inhumane sentiment I keep seeing about this news “who cares, they are a tiny country with small gdp”
- defaultname 5y ago
  Adorable pearl clutching.
  - dadoge 5y ago
    Adorable ignorance and lack of empathy
    - defaultname 5y ago
      It has nothing to do with lack of empathy, nor did I make any statement about banking in El Salvador. Your pearl clutching is the rather pathetic, desperate machinations of someone deep in BTC who is resorting to whatever foolish argument they can make to sell it. The vapid moralizing is embarrassing. You used El Salvador to try to legitimize BTC. As a tiny economic "power" (literally 7-11 sized), with a functionally broken government, it counts for somewhere approximating zero in legitimizing the farce that is BTC. The only people who think it is notable are BTC hypesters.
      - dadoge 5y ago
        Read more about this experiment before jumping to conclusions https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lifestyle-technology-d30c52b39e16ef49e4b6342fdc885c92 https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lif... The smallness of the country doesn’t mean this isn’t significant. They have problems, and through an experiment found solutions to those problems and are scaling them up
        defaultname 5y ago
        Again, what "conclusion" do you think I'm jumping to? Modernizing payment systems is having a huge impact across the entire developing world. I spent two years of my life building a system for payments (mobile to mobile) for a variety of African countries. Negligible fees, immediate, robust and reliable. This isn't new or novel. Bitcoin has shockingly little to do with El Salvador. It is a lightning network being pitched (which could be funded by USD, gold, eggs, turtles...whatever), trying to pump BTC in the process. So save with the feel good El Salvador story.
        dadoge 5y ago
        So you think this is just to pump Bitcoin? Well that’s where I disagree with you. What happened with those apps in Africa? And why is Nigeria increasingly looking to BTC? Could also be corrupt central banks, which I admit is less an issue in El Salvador. Bitcoin is also censorship resistant, Nigeria tried to ban BTC but P2P usage went up after the “ban”. And to be clear: I don’t think BTC is necessarily THE BEST conceivable solution out there - a USD backed coin probably is better for ES in the next few years. But I also do think BTC is better than status quo for ES
  - throwaway_kufu 5y ago
    You previously brought up El Salvador’s murder rate as though that has anything to do with or diminishes their Bitcoin experiment. It is really odd until you reveal below that you have a pretty clear bias against Bitcoin because you personally worked on some traditional payment processing software.
    - defaultname 5y ago
      I mentioned El Salvador's murder rate because it is a very broken country. Literally the worst in the world. What El Salvador does isn't convincing. I'm not the one who brought up El Salvador as a model to justify something. As to the "clear bias", I literally laughed out loud at that hilarious claim. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about this entire discussion. Firstly, I don't work in that realm anymore, but secondly it's _irrelevant_ because the product that I worked on could as easily be "backed" by BTC (in fact it is used in multiple jurisdictions backed by various currencies. The net is that something of value can be transmitted between users). None of these payment systems -- including "Bitcoin Beach" -- actually operate off of the BTC blockchain (you know, because it's completely broken trash). My bias against Bitcoin is that it is a garbage solution that solves literally nothing -- it is one of the worst solutions in every single claimed use -- but that we have to constantly hear a million pathetic salespeople for it because they've "invested" in it. If there were a thousand pet rock HN commentators pitching pet rocks in every discussion I'd shit on that too.
      - dadoge 5y ago
        There is some merits to what you are saying. Yes, the USD is better for hyperinflation *right now* than BTC as it is more stable. But I do think BTC has better properties that, in the long run, will prove superior to the USD and gold in environments of absurd inflation.
      - dadoge 5y ago
        The end goal for BTC is not for all transactions to run directly on-chain Hal Finney basically knew this in 2009 Elizabeth Stark knew this in 2014 and started Lightning
- iamben 5y ago
  Why bitcoin over a bank account? What's the advantage? I mean, if you don't have a bank account - "here, store everything you have on this phone [do you own a smartphone?], that requires an internet connection [can you afford that?]" - seems like a bigger step, no? Unless I'm missing something obvious?
  - dadoge 5y ago
    That is a good question that I’ve thought about but haven’t dug enough to have a great answer. Blockstream is working to make internet more accessible there. It’ll be interesting to see how much penetration they get and how much it’ll cost folks there. Doesn’t need to be a brand new iPhone, but I do agree that phones are an initial cost and I’d be interested in seeing what are low-cost smart phone options there. That said! The Bitcoin Beach experiment there was enough of a success https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lifestyle-technology-d30c52b39e16ef49e4b6342fdc885c92 https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lif...
    - dadoge 5y ago
      Update! 50% of ES has internet access, and this will only increase with companies like Blockstream coming in https://megaphone.link/BLOCK5279366544 https://megaphone.link/BLOCK5279366544
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Did you read that Bitcoin Beach article at all? > Gerard said it appears to work because the bitcoin donor keeps pumping bitcoin into the village’s system. “That’s not a proof of concept that works. That shows that you can trade this stuff if you’re not trading actual bitcoins and someone massively subsidizes it.” > Edgar Magaña was in town from San Salvador to convert $50 to bitcoin. He inserted the dollars into the machine and was surprised to see only $47 in bitcoin fractions credited to his account on his phone. “They took three dollars commission,” Magaña said, adding that he had understood there was no commission. “This is like in the banks.”
      - 5y ago

dadoge 5y ago

Man, wow. What if, like, you know, solving problems like 70% of the population not having a bank could actually reduce crime. Bitcoin is a pretty easy fix for that problem. And “it’s a tiny country”…like do they not deserve a better life since they have such a small gdp. This is the most inhumane sentiment I keep seeing about this news “who cares, they are a tiny country with small gdp”

defaultname 5y ago
Adorable pearl clutching.
- dadoge 5y ago
  Adorable ignorance and lack of empathy
  - defaultname 5y ago
    It has nothing to do with lack of empathy, nor did I make any statement about banking in El Salvador. Your pearl clutching is the rather pathetic, desperate machinations of someone deep in BTC who is resorting to whatever foolish argument they can make to sell it. The vapid moralizing is embarrassing. You used El Salvador to try to legitimize BTC. As a tiny economic "power" (literally 7-11 sized), with a functionally broken government, it counts for somewhere approximating zero in legitimizing the farce that is BTC. The only people who think it is notable are BTC hypesters.
    - dadoge 5y ago
      Read more about this experiment before jumping to conclusions https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lifestyle-technology-d30c52b39e16ef49e4b6342fdc885c92 https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lif... The smallness of the country doesn’t mean this isn’t significant. They have problems, and through an experiment found solutions to those problems and are scaling them up
      - defaultname 5y ago
        Again, what "conclusion" do you think I'm jumping to? Modernizing payment systems is having a huge impact across the entire developing world. I spent two years of my life building a system for payments (mobile to mobile) for a variety of African countries. Negligible fees, immediate, robust and reliable. This isn't new or novel. Bitcoin has shockingly little to do with El Salvador. It is a lightning network being pitched (which could be funded by USD, gold, eggs, turtles...whatever), trying to pump BTC in the process. So save with the feel good El Salvador story.
        dadoge 5y ago
        So you think this is just to pump Bitcoin? Well that’s where I disagree with you. What happened with those apps in Africa? And why is Nigeria increasingly looking to BTC? Could also be corrupt central banks, which I admit is less an issue in El Salvador. Bitcoin is also censorship resistant, Nigeria tried to ban BTC but P2P usage went up after the “ban”. And to be clear: I don’t think BTC is necessarily THE BEST conceivable solution out there - a USD backed coin probably is better for ES in the next few years. But I also do think BTC is better than status quo for ES
- throwaway_kufu 5y ago
  You previously brought up El Salvador’s murder rate as though that has anything to do with or diminishes their Bitcoin experiment. It is really odd until you reveal below that you have a pretty clear bias against Bitcoin because you personally worked on some traditional payment processing software.
  - defaultname 5y ago
    I mentioned El Salvador's murder rate because it is a very broken country. Literally the worst in the world. What El Salvador does isn't convincing. I'm not the one who brought up El Salvador as a model to justify something. As to the "clear bias", I literally laughed out loud at that hilarious claim. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about this entire discussion. Firstly, I don't work in that realm anymore, but secondly it's _irrelevant_ because the product that I worked on could as easily be "backed" by BTC (in fact it is used in multiple jurisdictions backed by various currencies. The net is that something of value can be transmitted between users). None of these payment systems -- including "Bitcoin Beach" -- actually operate off of the BTC blockchain (you know, because it's completely broken trash). My bias against Bitcoin is that it is a garbage solution that solves literally nothing -- it is one of the worst solutions in every single claimed use -- but that we have to constantly hear a million pathetic salespeople for it because they've "invested" in it. If there were a thousand pet rock HN commentators pitching pet rocks in every discussion I'd shit on that too.
    - dadoge 5y ago
      There is some merits to what you are saying. Yes, the USD is better for hyperinflation *right now* than BTC as it is more stable. But I do think BTC has better properties that, in the long run, will prove superior to the USD and gold in environments of absurd inflation.
    - dadoge 5y ago
      The end goal for BTC is not for all transactions to run directly on-chain Hal Finney basically knew this in 2009 Elizabeth Stark knew this in 2014 and started Lightning
iamben 5y ago
Why bitcoin over a bank account? What's the advantage? I mean, if you don't have a bank account - "here, store everything you have on this phone [do you own a smartphone?], that requires an internet connection [can you afford that?]" - seems like a bigger step, no? Unless I'm missing something obvious?
- dadoge 5y ago
  That is a good question that I’ve thought about but haven’t dug enough to have a great answer. Blockstream is working to make internet more accessible there. It’ll be interesting to see how much penetration they get and how much it’ll cost folks there. Doesn’t need to be a brand new iPhone, but I do agree that phones are an initial cost and I’d be interested in seeing what are low-cost smart phone options there. That said! The Bitcoin Beach experiment there was enough of a success https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lifestyle-technology-d30c52b39e16ef49e4b6342fdc885c92 https://apnews.com/article/caribbean-el-salvador-bitcoin-lif...
  - dadoge 5y ago
    Update! 50% of ES has internet access, and this will only increase with companies like Blockstream coming in https://megaphone.link/BLOCK5279366544 https://megaphone.link/BLOCK5279366544
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Did you read that Bitcoin Beach article at all? > Gerard said it appears to work because the bitcoin donor keeps pumping bitcoin into the village’s system. “That’s not a proof of concept that works. That shows that you can trade this stuff if you’re not trading actual bitcoins and someone massively subsidizes it.” > Edgar Magaña was in town from San Salvador to convert $50 to bitcoin. He inserted the dollars into the machine and was surprised to see only $47 in bitcoin fractions credited to his account on his phone. “They took three dollars commission,” Magaña said, adding that he had understood there was no commission. “This is like in the banks.”
    - 5y ago