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Environmental groups file objections against every single major project in democratic countries, where it's their right to do so. Occasionally, the objection is

Environmental groups file objections against every single major project in democratic countries, where it's their right to do so. Occasionally, the objection is worthwhile.

eplanit 5y ago
And, every time, the objections drive up costs and delay results.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  So does not destroying the environment. Sometimes, we do not want to keep costs and delays down.
- shlant 5y ago
  and many people are realizing that the environment should be considered over costs and deadlines
  - esyir 5y ago
    Until the frivolous complaints get them an image of obstructionism and people start to ignore them. Boy who cried wolf, after all.
    - shlant 5y ago
      sure it's possible both the public and the government officials making the decisions might get alarm fatigue but from what we are seeing, more and more people are caring about environmental impact (even when it comes to electric cars) and think that we aren't doing enough to prevent it. The scrutiny of all major construction projects will probably only continue to increase as public perception continues to shift.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        > more and more people are caring about environmental impact 1) It's hard to avoid the suspicion that ever more of those people are only performatively "caring" about environmental impacts; and 2) I'm getting ever more certain that quite a lot of those people who "are caring" lack enough information to care about environmental impact in a sensible way. If you're ill-informed enough, you will naively advocate "solutions" that are worse for the environment than what you're protesting against.
  - newsclues 5y ago
    Are we considering the environment when we delay the mass production of environmentally friendlier electric cars?
    - shlant 5y ago
      I don't think it's fair to compare the specific, fairly measurable consequences of not fully considering how to "prevent highly poisonous gas from escaping from the factory" vs. the more vague and complex environmental impact of a delay in car production. But lets put that aside and let me ask you this: What amount of delay would you be ok with in addressing environmental concerns?
      - newsclues 5y ago
        As little delay as reasonably possible.
        shlant 5y ago
        "reasonable" is pretty much meaningless. How do you determine what is "reasonable"? Who determines that?
paul_f 5y ago
"The boy who cried wolf." They need to be more selective if they want to be taken seriously. Maybe this one is serious, but how are we to know if they fight everything?
- Retric 5y ago
  We are not the ones reading these petitions, so it’s arguably irrelevant what we think about them. I suspect many environmental groups do limit themselves to reasonable exceptions, but when any group can do something some will object to everything. As such it’s not about environmental groups doing this but rather specific groups.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > As such it’s not about environmental groups doing this but rather specific groups. After a while, you get to the point where it's up to the "environmental groups" to police themselves: If The Reasonably Lush Greens don't want all environmental concerns to be written off as Luddite obscurantism, then The Reasonably Lush Greens should regularly put out press releases like "One-in-a-trillion Risk Of Poison Gas Discharge, While Technically Existant, Is Negligible -- The Fanatical Neon Greens Are Spreading BS". Really, honestly. Until they can do that, I'm not going to take either seriously. Why should anyone? Isn't that like accepting some rather-ultra-right movement because "But hey, they're not actually advocating gassing all the Jews... They just refuse to condemn the ones who DO advocate it." ?
    - Retric 5y ago
      Except these aren’t meaningless issues, any construction has negative environmental impacts they just not have negative impacts in everything. Group A wants to protect wetlands, group B wants to protect deserts. Collectively their going to object to more projects than they do individually. It’s not group A’s job to police group B, and they are definitely not talking to you.
      - CRConrad 5y ago

Environmental groups file objections against every single major project in democratic countries, where it's their right to do so. Occasionally, the objection is worthwhile.

eplanit 5y ago

And, every time, the objections drive up costs and delay results.

user-the-name 5y ago
So does not destroying the environment. Sometimes, we do not want to keep costs and delays down.
shlant 5y ago
and many people are realizing that the environment should be considered over costs and deadlines
- esyir 5y ago
  Until the frivolous complaints get them an image of obstructionism and people start to ignore them. Boy who cried wolf, after all.
  - shlant 5y ago
    sure it's possible both the public and the government officials making the decisions might get alarm fatigue but from what we are seeing, more and more people are caring about environmental impact (even when it comes to electric cars) and think that we aren't doing enough to prevent it. The scrutiny of all major construction projects will probably only continue to increase as public perception continues to shift.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > more and more people are caring about environmental impact 1) It's hard to avoid the suspicion that ever more of those people are only performatively "caring" about environmental impacts; and 2) I'm getting ever more certain that quite a lot of those people who "are caring" lack enough information to care about environmental impact in a sensible way. If you're ill-informed enough, you will naively advocate "solutions" that are worse for the environment than what you're protesting against.
- newsclues 5y ago
  Are we considering the environment when we delay the mass production of environmentally friendlier electric cars?
  - shlant 5y ago
    I don't think it's fair to compare the specific, fairly measurable consequences of not fully considering how to "prevent highly poisonous gas from escaping from the factory" vs. the more vague and complex environmental impact of a delay in car production. But lets put that aside and let me ask you this: What amount of delay would you be ok with in addressing environmental concerns?
    - newsclues 5y ago
      As little delay as reasonably possible.
      - shlant 5y ago
        "reasonable" is pretty much meaningless. How do you determine what is "reasonable"? Who determines that?

paul_f 5y ago

"The boy who cried wolf." They need to be more selective if they want to be taken seriously. Maybe this one is serious, but how are we to know if they fight everything?

Retric 5y ago
We are not the ones reading these petitions, so it’s arguably irrelevant what we think about them. I suspect many environmental groups do limit themselves to reasonable exceptions, but when any group can do something some will object to everything. As such it’s not about environmental groups doing this but rather specific groups.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > As such it’s not about environmental groups doing this but rather specific groups. After a while, you get to the point where it's up to the "environmental groups" to police themselves: If The Reasonably Lush Greens don't want all environmental concerns to be written off as Luddite obscurantism, then The Reasonably Lush Greens should regularly put out press releases like "One-in-a-trillion Risk Of Poison Gas Discharge, While Technically Existant, Is Negligible -- The Fanatical Neon Greens Are Spreading BS". Really, honestly. Until they can do that, I'm not going to take either seriously. Why should anyone? Isn't that like accepting some rather-ultra-right movement because "But hey, they're not actually advocating gassing all the Jews... They just refuse to condemn the ones who DO advocate it." ?
  - Retric 5y ago
    Except these aren’t meaningless issues, any construction has negative environmental impacts they just not have negative impacts in everything. Group A wants to protect wetlands, group B wants to protect deserts. Collectively their going to object to more projects than they do individually. It’s not group A’s job to police group B, and they are definitely not talking to you.
    - CRConrad 5y ago