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Here in Portugal the louder voices speak for public transit - greener, fairer, etc etc. You know the usual arguments. Unfortunately massive public works are by

Here in Portugal the louder voices speak for public transit - greener, fairer, etc etc. You know the usual arguments. Unfortunately massive public works are by far our biggest source of grifting. It takes an average of 20 years and $120M/mile (60M €/km) to open a new metro station. Maybe Switzerland doesn't have this problem, but I'm all for solutions that take funds away from our politician's hands. And the car is great in that respect, as long as you don't advocate to increase road capacity at a massive cost.

zozbot234 5y ago
> It takes an average of 20 years and $120M/mile (60M €/km) to open a new metro station. Light rail transit or streetcars can be a lot cheaper than that, while still avoiding quite a bit of car traffic. The best system for any given atea is going to depend on density and local demand.
- zemvpferreira 5y ago
  It can, but it won't be in Lisbon, unless we completely reform the public sector first. If that's our hope we might as well get used to the current situation.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > Light rail transit or streetcars can be a lot cheaper than that, while still avoiding quite a bit of car traffic Yeah, but their downsides (noise, vibrations, visibility) make them impractical for new projects in most old cities.
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Hm. What do you think of the taxes on top of the costs for fuel/gas, then? And how they relate to the 'peanuts' for some metro?
- zemvpferreira 5y ago
  That's fair enough, I'm pinning my hopes on the electric car/bike coming down in price enough to make them viable for our commuters in the next 5 years. Still, if we don't have massive public works, it's a lot harder to fill politician's pockets on the side.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Hmmm. Ok. From my german point of view I wouldn't bet on energy getting cheaper anytime soon, no matter if electric, hydrogen, or any other fuels. "Vee arr ze stupid cows being milked until implosion!" Moooo! ;->
    - zemvpferreira 5y ago
      Not so worried about energy cost as I am purchase price ;)
soco 5y ago
There aren't such big cities in Switzerland to actually need a metro. Surface transport does just fine, plus some transit trains going under where it can't be avoided. So yes lately many investments go in new train tunnels, you can load your car and go that way for really long distances or across mountains, you have the sleeping wagons back in fashion, you can send your heavy luggage ahead via same train for a minor charge, you have night transport for when you come back drunk from clubbing... so you can keep your car for the casual shopping trip and for taxiing kid's football team to the weekend match. Not much need otherwise, and yes, it works already.

zozbot234 5y ago

> It takes an average of 20 years and $120M/mile (60M €/km) to open a new metro station. Light rail transit or streetcars can be a lot cheaper than that, while still avoiding quite a bit of car traffic. The best system for any given atea is going to depend on density and local demand.

zemvpferreira 5y ago
It can, but it won't be in Lisbon, unless we completely reform the public sector first. If that's our hope we might as well get used to the current situation.
sofixa 5y ago
> Light rail transit or streetcars can be a lot cheaper than that, while still avoiding quite a bit of car traffic Yeah, but their downsides (noise, vibrations, visibility) make them impractical for new projects in most old cities.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

Hm. What do you think of the taxes on top of the costs for fuel/gas, then? And how they relate to the 'peanuts' for some metro?

zemvpferreira 5y ago
That's fair enough, I'm pinning my hopes on the electric car/bike coming down in price enough to make them viable for our commuters in the next 5 years. Still, if we don't have massive public works, it's a lot harder to fill politician's pockets on the side.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Hmmm. Ok. From my german point of view I wouldn't bet on energy getting cheaper anytime soon, no matter if electric, hydrogen, or any other fuels. "Vee arr ze stupid cows being milked until implosion!" Moooo! ;->
  - zemvpferreira 5y ago
    Not so worried about energy cost as I am purchase price ;)

soco 5y ago

There aren't such big cities in Switzerland to actually need a metro. Surface transport does just fine, plus some transit trains going under where it can't be avoided. So yes lately many investments go in new train tunnels, you can load your car and go that way for really long distances or across mountains, you have the sleeping wagons back in fashion, you can send your heavy luggage ahead via same train for a minor charge, you have night transport for when you come back drunk from clubbing... so you can keep your car for the casual shopping trip and for taxiing kid's football team to the weekend match. Not much need otherwise, and yes, it works already.