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>I believe the WFH shift is inevitable for the information industry and whoever tries to resist it will be in the wrong side of history. I believe the WFH shif

>I believe the WFH shift is inevitable for the information industry and whoever tries to resist it will be in the wrong side of history. I believe the WFH shift is currently in fashion, in the same way that cubicles used to be, then open-offices. 10+ years ago, it was a big thing for a startup, for example, to get some office space at a accelerator just to have a physical location - even though you could do all your work remotely. At some point, I suspect, work-from-office will come back around. Big picture: Some people like remote work, some people don't. Some companies will embrace remote work, some won't. This is the same with how some people prefer cubicles (like me!) and others see them as soul-less cages.

tarsinge 5y ago
Regular WFH is definitely not in fashion, the discussions of these last few days show it's still in early stage even in FAANGs outside of the COVID context. > Some people like remote work, some people don't. And a lot like to have the option to do both, because even if I prefer working at the office being forced to be there every day of the week no matter the circumstances makes no sense for me. What is asked here is flexibility.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
> At some point, I suspect, work-from-office will come back around. It already has. The forward-thinking job candidates advertise willingness to work in an office now, (correctly) inferring that it increases their hireability and promotion chances.
- ghaff 5y ago
  You're being downvoted but, as someone effectively if not officially full-time remote, I agree with you. There are almost certainly far more opportunities for someone who can come into an office even if just for a day or two a week, a few days every other week, etc. than there are for people living in the mountains someplace who can fly to a week-long team meeting every quarter. The latter opportunities exist too. That's effectively the situation with my very distributed team although I could drive into an office (where the vast bulk of them are not located). But there are probably far fewer of them.
  - xwolfi 5y ago
    We were asked at my company to indicate our wfh preferences for the future so we can plan real estate (we re a big intl bank). As soon as the result in each team came out, managers were talking abt who s engaged (0 wfh) vs who's not (4-5 days wfh). I dont care, I put 0 to increase my popularity upstairs as it cost me nothing at all, but you cant help to wonder if companies are sincere in asking people to choose. Just dont ask if you dont want it to happen.
noir_lord 5y ago
> This is the same with how some people prefer cubicles (like me!) For me it goes like this (best to worse). WFH Forever (as I currently do). On-site own office Small Office (only devs) Cubicle Open Office. Should note I will not work in an open office as in I used to ask in the interview if it was an open office and if so terminate the interview politely. Small Office/Cubicle you'd have to be paying spectaculary well. On-site own office I'd consider for market rate and WFH - just pay me the average for my level. Basically if you want me on-site it'll cost more, if you want me on-site in a less than ideal working environment (for me) it'll cost even more.
- biztos 5y ago
  Interesting that you prefer a small (shared) office to a cubicle -- I never worked in one but I imagine it to be a special kind of Hell. At least with a cubicle your space, such as it is, is your space -- you don't have to share it with John who smells funny or Larry who talks to himself, and so on.
  - frumper 5y ago
    I can smell and hear my co-workers from my cubicle just fine. In the floor I'm on we have accountants, developers, the help desk, people that write contracts, and our travel desk. There is a lot of competing noise about a ton of different topics. To those, including my boss, that say as remote we miss out on the overhearing about an issue and coming up with a solution, I present you that I overhear about how accounting is categorizing funding, or whether contracts need to have contractors submit insurance more regularly. The developers all have on noise canceling headphones and send chat/email. On really fun days someone cooks fish in the microwave in the nearby kitchenette, but usually it's just smelling the dozen or so cubicles around me.
  - noir_lord 5y ago
    A small office with only devs in is generally quieter than a cubicle surrounded by cubicles full of non-devs. There are two things that stop me from working comfortably/well - noise I can't control and visual distractions (and it's gotten worse as I've gotten older).
pjc50 5y ago
Note that there are three things going on here: - how good is your office environment as a work environment? (e.g. does it have productivity-destroying measures like being open, or is it acoustically quiet, or has nice facilities, etc). Also applies to home environment! - how good is your commute (time/cost/gruellingness/exposure to infection from other humans) - how much are you paying in land/real estate cost to have (a) an office in a prestige location and (b) workers within commuting range to it? There is a huge amount of money being paid to landlords and rentiers in the broader sense, and it would be a big efficiency for the economy as a whole to .. not do that.
- angmarsbane 5y ago
  The commute is the big thing. My preference for WFH has far less to do with the office than it does with the commute. Even living physically close to my job, the commute could be bumper to bumper and just aggravating.

tarsinge 5y ago

Regular WFH is definitely not in fashion, the discussions of these last few days show it's still in early stage even in FAANGs outside of the COVID context. > Some people like remote work, some people don't. And a lot like to have the option to do both, because even if I prefer working at the office being forced to be there every day of the week no matter the circumstances makes no sense for me. What is asked here is flexibility.

otabdeveloper4 5y ago

> At some point, I suspect, work-from-office will come back around. It already has. The forward-thinking job candidates advertise willingness to work in an office now, (correctly) inferring that it increases their hireability and promotion chances.

ghaff 5y ago
You're being downvoted but, as someone effectively if not officially full-time remote, I agree with you. There are almost certainly far more opportunities for someone who can come into an office even if just for a day or two a week, a few days every other week, etc. than there are for people living in the mountains someplace who can fly to a week-long team meeting every quarter. The latter opportunities exist too. That's effectively the situation with my very distributed team although I could drive into an office (where the vast bulk of them are not located). But there are probably far fewer of them.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  We were asked at my company to indicate our wfh preferences for the future so we can plan real estate (we re a big intl bank). As soon as the result in each team came out, managers were talking abt who s engaged (0 wfh) vs who's not (4-5 days wfh). I dont care, I put 0 to increase my popularity upstairs as it cost me nothing at all, but you cant help to wonder if companies are sincere in asking people to choose. Just dont ask if you dont want it to happen.

noir_lord 5y ago

> This is the same with how some people prefer cubicles (like me!) For me it goes like this (best to worse). WFH Forever (as I currently do). On-site own office Small Office (only devs) Cubicle Open Office. Should note I will not work in an open office as in I used to ask in the interview if it was an open office and if so terminate the interview politely. Small Office/Cubicle you'd have to be paying spectaculary well. On-site own office I'd consider for market rate and WFH - just pay me the average for my level. Basically if you want me on-site it'll cost more, if you want me on-site in a less than ideal working environment (for me) it'll cost even more.

biztos 5y ago
Interesting that you prefer a small (shared) office to a cubicle -- I never worked in one but I imagine it to be a special kind of Hell. At least with a cubicle your space, such as it is, is your space -- you don't have to share it with John who smells funny or Larry who talks to himself, and so on.
- frumper 5y ago
  I can smell and hear my co-workers from my cubicle just fine. In the floor I'm on we have accountants, developers, the help desk, people that write contracts, and our travel desk. There is a lot of competing noise about a ton of different topics. To those, including my boss, that say as remote we miss out on the overhearing about an issue and coming up with a solution, I present you that I overhear about how accounting is categorizing funding, or whether contracts need to have contractors submit insurance more regularly. The developers all have on noise canceling headphones and send chat/email. On really fun days someone cooks fish in the microwave in the nearby kitchenette, but usually it's just smelling the dozen or so cubicles around me.
- noir_lord 5y ago
  A small office with only devs in is generally quieter than a cubicle surrounded by cubicles full of non-devs. There are two things that stop me from working comfortably/well - noise I can't control and visual distractions (and it's gotten worse as I've gotten older).

pjc50 5y ago

Note that there are three things going on here: - how good is your office environment as a work environment? (e.g. does it have productivity-destroying measures like being open, or is it acoustically quiet, or has nice facilities, etc). Also applies to home environment! - how good is your commute (time/cost/gruellingness/exposure to infection from other humans) - how much are you paying in land/real estate cost to have (a) an office in a prestige location and (b) workers within commuting range to it? There is a huge amount of money being paid to landlords and rentiers in the broader sense, and it would be a big efficiency for the economy as a whole to .. not do that.

angmarsbane 5y ago
The commute is the big thing. My preference for WFH has far less to do with the office than it does with the commute. Even living physically close to my job, the commute could be bumper to bumper and just aggravating.