4 ms·

I'm jealous of parking abundant American cities. In this part of the pond, your choices are between walking, taking a face-planted-against-the-window bus or tra

I'm jealous of parking abundant American cities. In this part of the pond, your choices are between walking, taking a face-planted-against-the-window bus or train, or take your car and spin around for 30 minutes at your destination trying to find somewhere to leave your car. Neither of these are very good. I'd rather one problem be solved than have a choice between 3 awful compromises.

HPsquared 5y ago
Taxi not an option?
- ldoughty 5y ago
  If you're going to work, that might be 15-30% of your income to pay for the trip
  - hobofan 5y ago
    If you are going to work as a freelancer and bill commute as working time (as you should, to disincentivize useless meetings), you might even make money while being driven.
- Cockbrand 5y ago
  Or cycling?
- eafkuor 5y ago
  Last time I checked taxis are pretty expensive. Not everyone wants or can spend 10 or 20 euros every time they need to go somewhere.
  - jonvk 5y ago
    Free parking is also quite expensive, although it's hard to see. It increases the costs of private properties when it's part of the property, and public parking increases government expenditures. It also consumes lots of otherwise very valuable space. That's without factoring in the increased costs on social structures from the extra drivers on the road when there is more parking space.
    - tomytosian 5y ago
      yeah but its wrong. public parking is mostly paid by high income property owners. parking is mostly paid by poor or middle class people living in remote suburbs with the need to commute
toyg 5y ago
The answer to that is not more parking; it's cheap rideshare / carpooling / taxi when weather is bad, and incentivising usage of space-efficient bikes and motorbikes when weather is good. In fact, London's taxi culture already has (or had) that sort of approach.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  The answer also involves congestion pricing for parking spots, so you don't have to spin around so much in your car looking for a free spot. Of course, the higher prices involved would themselves create a higher incentive for these alternate solutions.
- zemvpferreira 5y ago
  More parking can definitely be part of the solution. Above or underground automated parking cylinders can fit many cars, especially in the periphery of the city center where people can then use a short taxi ride/walk to their final destination.
poooogles 5y ago
Cycle?
- Tade0 5y ago
  Doesn't and can't actually replace a car over a certain size of the city. It is said that in the Netherlands 27% of all trips are done by bicycle - IIRC it's the highest percentage in Europe. What is not mentioned though is that 50% are done by car. If you look at the distance traveled it's 75% car, 8% bicycle. The cities in that country that have a higher trip percentage are tiny, 100k towns. Bicycles replace walking, not driving.
  - locallost 5y ago
    68% of work and school related trips are by bicycle in Amsterdam. so obviously they replace quite a bit more than walking.
  - Elte 5y ago
    What types of trips? Distance traveled isn't really a relevant metric if you consider that cars may be used between cities (where distances are longer) and bikes inside of cities. I'm from the Netherlands, 30 years old and have never owned a car. I do most everything by bike and public transport, occasionally if the situation calls for it I rent or borrow a car (I know people with cars that, unsurprisingly, aren't being used all the time). It certainly depends on your exact living situation, but my impression is that infrastructure plays a big role. I lived in Amsterdam for 12 years, and almost everything in that city encourages you to use a bike, and almost everyone does. Recently I've moved to Germany, and even though it's generally considered a bike friendly country with lots of people owning bicycles, the infrastructure doesn't compare. Dedicated bike lanes are way less common, and whatever is there is often bad quality (avoiding bumps all the time is really energy consuming). Again, unsurprisingly, people use cars here over distances where it wouldn't even cross my mind. Of course distance matters, and cars will be preferable for long distances with bad public transport connections. I've never found driving a car inside a city to make a lot of sense though, it's often not even faster taking congestion etc into account. Put the bike infrastructure in place, and people will use it. Lots of Dutch train stations now have what's referred to as a "public transport bike", a few euros lets you borrow a sturdy bike for a 24-hour period. Take a train into town, do the rest with the bike, it's all really simple and fast. I see this being added to large parking spaces outside of cities in the future (maybe they already have - I don't own a car so I wouldn't know ;]).
Isinlor 5y ago
I use bike to go everywhere. It is a prefect solution: 1. Cheap 2. Takes very little space 3. Good for health 4. In a dense city almost as fast as a car; sometimes faster For people who doubt biking is possible. In Finland there is a city near arctic circle called Oulu with population of around 100 000 people. They have 2h of day light in winter. Temperatures often go to -10 degrees centigrade. And 22% of all trips are done by bikes. Including children going to primary schools. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wZ0tXMSAfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wZ0tXMSAfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
- tomytosian 5y ago
  yeah try with a family of 5, when u need to bring shopping or stuff you bought.
adreamingsoul 5y ago
Commuting to work, five days a week opens up a lot of possibilities. But it also becomes a source of many problems. Your commute to and from work are now influenced by traffic. Some days are worse than others, but your boss doesn’t care as long as you are on time. Fuel/electricity, maintenance, tires, and all the other costs for owning a vehicle add up to be a significant cost. And if you are already paying a premium to drive, might as well capitalise on that. Eventually you move a little farther from work to buy a bigger house for less, and free up some of your income for other things. That 30 minute commute is now an hour and maybe less on a good day. Well, if your going to spend two hours a day in a vehicle, might as well buy something more comfortable.
wayoutthere 5y ago
More parking just makes the sprawl worse and the traffic awful. Many Americans have commutes well over an hour each way because traffic is so bad. Doing so has a serious negative impact on quality of life and overall health since you’re sitting in a car so much.
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
That is the mentality of a slave. Rise up, and employ a chaffeur to drive you where you need to be, and be back in an instant when you need the car again.

HPsquared 5y ago

Taxi not an option?

ldoughty 5y ago
If you're going to work, that might be 15-30% of your income to pay for the trip
- hobofan 5y ago
  If you are going to work as a freelancer and bill commute as working time (as you should, to disincentivize useless meetings), you might even make money while being driven.
Cockbrand 5y ago
Or cycling?
eafkuor 5y ago
Last time I checked taxis are pretty expensive. Not everyone wants or can spend 10 or 20 euros every time they need to go somewhere.
- jonvk 5y ago
  Free parking is also quite expensive, although it's hard to see. It increases the costs of private properties when it's part of the property, and public parking increases government expenditures. It also consumes lots of otherwise very valuable space. That's without factoring in the increased costs on social structures from the extra drivers on the road when there is more parking space.
  - tomytosian 5y ago
    yeah but its wrong. public parking is mostly paid by high income property owners. parking is mostly paid by poor or middle class people living in remote suburbs with the need to commute

toyg 5y ago

The answer to that is not more parking; it's cheap rideshare / carpooling / taxi when weather is bad, and incentivising usage of space-efficient bikes and motorbikes when weather is good. In fact, London's taxi culture already has (or had) that sort of approach.

zozbot234 5y ago
The answer also involves congestion pricing for parking spots, so you don't have to spin around so much in your car looking for a free spot. Of course, the higher prices involved would themselves create a higher incentive for these alternate solutions.
zemvpferreira 5y ago
More parking can definitely be part of the solution. Above or underground automated parking cylinders can fit many cars, especially in the periphery of the city center where people can then use a short taxi ride/walk to their final destination.

poooogles 5y ago

Cycle?

Tade0 5y ago
Doesn't and can't actually replace a car over a certain size of the city. It is said that in the Netherlands 27% of all trips are done by bicycle - IIRC it's the highest percentage in Europe. What is not mentioned though is that 50% are done by car. If you look at the distance traveled it's 75% car, 8% bicycle. The cities in that country that have a higher trip percentage are tiny, 100k towns. Bicycles replace walking, not driving.
- locallost 5y ago
  68% of work and school related trips are by bicycle in Amsterdam. so obviously they replace quite a bit more than walking.
- Elte 5y ago
  What types of trips? Distance traveled isn't really a relevant metric if you consider that cars may be used between cities (where distances are longer) and bikes inside of cities. I'm from the Netherlands, 30 years old and have never owned a car. I do most everything by bike and public transport, occasionally if the situation calls for it I rent or borrow a car (I know people with cars that, unsurprisingly, aren't being used all the time). It certainly depends on your exact living situation, but my impression is that infrastructure plays a big role. I lived in Amsterdam for 12 years, and almost everything in that city encourages you to use a bike, and almost everyone does. Recently I've moved to Germany, and even though it's generally considered a bike friendly country with lots of people owning bicycles, the infrastructure doesn't compare. Dedicated bike lanes are way less common, and whatever is there is often bad quality (avoiding bumps all the time is really energy consuming). Again, unsurprisingly, people use cars here over distances where it wouldn't even cross my mind. Of course distance matters, and cars will be preferable for long distances with bad public transport connections. I've never found driving a car inside a city to make a lot of sense though, it's often not even faster taking congestion etc into account. Put the bike infrastructure in place, and people will use it. Lots of Dutch train stations now have what's referred to as a "public transport bike", a few euros lets you borrow a sturdy bike for a 24-hour period. Take a train into town, do the rest with the bike, it's all really simple and fast. I see this being added to large parking spaces outside of cities in the future (maybe they already have - I don't own a car so I wouldn't know ;]).

Isinlor 5y ago

I use bike to go everywhere. It is a prefect solution: 1. Cheap 2. Takes very little space 3. Good for health 4. In a dense city almost as fast as a car; sometimes faster For people who doubt biking is possible. In Finland there is a city near arctic circle called Oulu with population of around 100 000 people. They have 2h of day light in winter. Temperatures often go to -10 degrees centigrade. And 22% of all trips are done by bikes. Including children going to primary schools. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wZ0tXMSAfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wZ0tXMSAfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

tomytosian 5y ago
yeah try with a family of 5, when u need to bring shopping or stuff you bought.

adreamingsoul 5y ago

Commuting to work, five days a week opens up a lot of possibilities. But it also becomes a source of many problems. Your commute to and from work are now influenced by traffic. Some days are worse than others, but your boss doesn’t care as long as you are on time. Fuel/electricity, maintenance, tires, and all the other costs for owning a vehicle add up to be a significant cost. And if you are already paying a premium to drive, might as well capitalise on that. Eventually you move a little farther from work to buy a bigger house for less, and free up some of your income for other things. That 30 minute commute is now an hour and maybe less on a good day. Well, if your going to spend two hours a day in a vehicle, might as well buy something more comfortable.

wayoutthere 5y ago

More parking just makes the sprawl worse and the traffic awful. Many Americans have commutes well over an hour each way because traffic is so bad. Doing so has a serious negative impact on quality of life and overall health since you’re sitting in a car so much.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

That is the mentality of a slave. Rise up, and employ a chaffeur to drive you where you need to be, and be back in an instant when you need the car again.