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> a person lounging at home in their pajamas, drinking a chai latte while ‘dabbling’ occasionally in work This is literally what a lot of people want though.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
This is literally what a lot of managers think a lot of people want. People act (on average) with a lot more good faith than most corporate entities. If, as a manager, you are unable to infer that this is happening, then in all probability that person would be doing the same 'dabbling' if they were co-located. (Just with a higher effort of looking busier).
- throwaway6734 5y ago
  My anecdotal evidence is that the majority of people in my network are not working anywhere close 8 hours. I don't think they're less productive than they were in the office.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    That's probably because they were rarely heads-down for 8 hours in the office either.
    - throwaway6734 5y ago
      absolutely
  - Loughla 5y ago
    When we were remote, my staff was nowhere near 8 hours a day. Our schedules are very dependent on our students (higher education) and their needs. Sometimes they would work 2 hours a day, sometimes 10. It was literally just like in the office, except they were free to do whatever they needed to do during their down time. Old administration thought that wasn't good, because people were screwing around during the 8-5. I tried to explain that yes, that happened, but a) that already happens in the office; b) they're also working at night, on the weekends, and whenever the hell I need them to, and not complaining about it, or even being bothered by it c) they're happier and MUCH more effective for the students. No go.
- Akronymus 5y ago
  For me, I don't want to do that, but as distractions are so easy, I can easily see myself falling in such a pattern. That's why, despite having the choice to work from home, I am going to mainly work in the office.
  - intricatedetail 5y ago
    Won't that project an image that you are not trustworthy and have to be supervised?
  - l33t2328 5y ago
    I think there’s something to be said for the fixed “work” environment having an impact on your thinking and productivity. At work = work mode, at home = home mode.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      It's more important for some people than for others. I will say when I used to just sometimes work from home, it was more important for me to do the usual morning routine, dress up in my usual business casual, and sit down in my office. The last 10 years or so, when I've been increasingly working remote--and have been effectively full-time even within fairly easy commute of an office--I don't bother and will work anywhere in the house I want.
    - WorldMaker 5y ago
      Which is why many successful remote workers have a dedicated "space" for work to help force the mental switch between modes, even if it just a dedicated "office" room in their home or a regular coffee shop they only use for work or options like that. You can have a "fixed" work environment without it being a centrally managed office. More reason why "work-from-home" is an under-efficient specifier on both sides for what people are often really asking for/what bosses really want. "Work-from-home-office" at the very least would offer a better impression to both sides, though I think the great-grandparent here's "flexible-location" is probably better still.
syshum 5y ago
My experience over the years, especially for "information workers", is that location does not matter to productivity. if a worker wants to slack off and post on HN (or watch netflix) during office hours it does not matter if they are "in the office" or at home....
chasd00 5y ago
You either get it done or someone who can will replace you. What makes people feel so safe in their job that “dabbling” is not putting their career at risk?
protonimitate 5y ago
Why not both? I can drink a chai latte in my PJs and "occasionally" work through-out the day and still be more productive than if I waste 3 hours a day on commuting and have to fight through constant noises and distractions in an office.
antihero 5y ago
Then the solution is simple. Make the metric production. If you can sit around in your PJs browsing reddit and do the odd hour here and there and still get the same results as people that are 9-6 bum in seat, who cares?

DoingIsLearning 5y ago

This is literally what a lot of managers think a lot of people want. People act (on average) with a lot more good faith than most corporate entities. If, as a manager, you are unable to infer that this is happening, then in all probability that person would be doing the same 'dabbling' if they were co-located. (Just with a higher effort of looking busier).

throwaway6734 5y ago
My anecdotal evidence is that the majority of people in my network are not working anywhere close 8 hours. I don't think they're less productive than they were in the office.
- ghaff 5y ago
  That's probably because they were rarely heads-down for 8 hours in the office either.
  - throwaway6734 5y ago
    absolutely
- Loughla 5y ago
  When we were remote, my staff was nowhere near 8 hours a day. Our schedules are very dependent on our students (higher education) and their needs. Sometimes they would work 2 hours a day, sometimes 10. It was literally just like in the office, except they were free to do whatever they needed to do during their down time. Old administration thought that wasn't good, because people were screwing around during the 8-5. I tried to explain that yes, that happened, but a) that already happens in the office; b) they're also working at night, on the weekends, and whenever the hell I need them to, and not complaining about it, or even being bothered by it c) they're happier and MUCH more effective for the students. No go.
Akronymus 5y ago
For me, I don't want to do that, but as distractions are so easy, I can easily see myself falling in such a pattern. That's why, despite having the choice to work from home, I am going to mainly work in the office.
- intricatedetail 5y ago
  Won't that project an image that you are not trustworthy and have to be supervised?
- l33t2328 5y ago
  I think there’s something to be said for the fixed “work” environment having an impact on your thinking and productivity. At work = work mode, at home = home mode.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    It's more important for some people than for others. I will say when I used to just sometimes work from home, it was more important for me to do the usual morning routine, dress up in my usual business casual, and sit down in my office. The last 10 years or so, when I've been increasingly working remote--and have been effectively full-time even within fairly easy commute of an office--I don't bother and will work anywhere in the house I want.
  - WorldMaker 5y ago
    Which is why many successful remote workers have a dedicated "space" for work to help force the mental switch between modes, even if it just a dedicated "office" room in their home or a regular coffee shop they only use for work or options like that. You can have a "fixed" work environment without it being a centrally managed office. More reason why "work-from-home" is an under-efficient specifier on both sides for what people are often really asking for/what bosses really want. "Work-from-home-office" at the very least would offer a better impression to both sides, though I think the great-grandparent here's "flexible-location" is probably better still.

syshum 5y ago

My experience over the years, especially for "information workers", is that location does not matter to productivity. if a worker wants to slack off and post on HN (or watch netflix) during office hours it does not matter if they are "in the office" or at home....

chasd00 5y ago

You either get it done or someone who can will replace you. What makes people feel so safe in their job that “dabbling” is not putting their career at risk?

protonimitate 5y ago

Why not both? I can drink a chai latte in my PJs and "occasionally" work through-out the day and still be more productive than if I waste 3 hours a day on commuting and have to fight through constant noises and distractions in an office.

antihero 5y ago

Then the solution is simple. Make the metric production. If you can sit around in your PJs browsing reddit and do the odd hour here and there and still get the same results as people that are 9-6 bum in seat, who cares?