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I believe the WFH shift is inevitable for the information industry and whoever tries to resist it will be in the wrong side of history. Covid, for all of its h

I believe the WFH shift is inevitable for the information industry and whoever tries to resist it will be in the wrong side of history. Covid, for all of its horrors, did bring this positive change which should in the long term help alleviate traffic congestion, reduce the climate impact of commuting and revert the decay of small and medium cities. In the future, expecting information workers to work in the office every day will feel like requiring them to wear a suit feels today. There will be certain niches that will be stuck in the old ways, and other obvious exceptions where physical interaction with equipment is necessary, but otherwise this change is here to stay. Its implementation will be gradual after the initial batch of forward-thinking companies adopt it, but unstoppable nonetheless. After a point, companies will greatly prefer flexible workplaces due to reduced hiring costs and overhead, especially as the technology for remote work improves and more people become proficient at working from outside the office. We should all be prepared for the change. Being effective working from home is a workplace skill like any other; at one time, for instance, information workers had to learn to transition to the typewriter and later to computers. Those who refuse to learn this new skill will eventually be left behind or, at best, have their employment options substantially restricted.

radicalbyte 5y ago
I'm not so sure: now that I'm 40 and have 3 kids I really love WFH. It saves a commute and lets me balance my life/work effectively. However 21/22 year old me would have hated this! Working from an office was so much fun back then. Plus you'd meet girls at lunch and stuff. Fantastic time. Lots of work, lots of learning the soft skills and lots of laughing around and enjoying myself. I hope that 24/7 WFH doesn't become a thing, but that we get a mix. Flexibility from both sides, whenever possible.
- Loughla 5y ago
  >lots of learning the soft skills This is actually something that didn't cross my mind through this whole thing, and I don't know why. I love WFH, and wish my employer would extend the option, rather than take a hardline stance against it (old administration doesn't understand productivity tools so we all suffer). That being said, if I was just starting out in the working world, my prospects absolutely would've been different as time went on. Working in an office full time 100% helped me realize that soft skills are as, if not more important than technical skill. As a director of a very diverse department now, I actually look for soft skills more than anything. Technical aspects can be learned via the on-boarding process. Soft skills are so much harder to hone, though. Especially if you're entirely remote.
- sumtechguy 5y ago
  It will be a blend in the end. Right now it is more a fashion thing. Depending on the structure of your company it will work very well or not at at all. Sometimes throwing 3 people in a room with a whiteboard and a few markers fixes a lot of issues. That sort of thing does not usually happen remote from my exp. But in an office it happens all the time. Sometimes there are too many help vampires. They are good enough but require a lot of hand holding to get up to 'works independent'. The ones they goto are usually the most productive people and that does not happen as much remote. So the more productive ones say 'this is awesome' because they get so much done, but meanwhile the rest of the org is struggling. Also when you work remote after a few years people 'forget' about you. You get left out of things. Because they just do not see you. If they do not see you, you do not exist to them. I worked remote for about 10 years. I had to be very diligent to be included into things. Recently a few years ago I got to work in an office again with a great group. It was amazing. I learned so much so quickly. I became way more productive. I was able to share a lot more to more jr devs. But now it is back to the same things where I have to spend a lot of time being noticed for anything, and basically having to play a interesting game of 'be nice in email'. Also if you do not have an advocates in management it will be even worse (luckily I do not have that issue this time). Remote work has a lot going for it but also a lot going against it. But in the end companies will need to measure it. If they don't it is nothing but a guess.
  - throwaway2037 5y ago
    <<too many help vampires>> This is my first time ever to see this description. It is perfect. I am currently sitting next to someone who is exactly this! I cannot figure out if this person is lacking skills or just plain lazy... but they sure take up a lot of my time compared to their net output!
    - sumtechguy 5y ago
      The best way to help them is to challenge them with questions. Basically teach them to learn it and ask things like 'did you look at the docs and what did they say?' 'if you were going to do it how would you?...' and so on. One important aspect is to teach them to have their own authority to do things. Basically do not show them exactly how to do something but guide them to learning how to do it. But it can take awhile to 'fix'. No quick answer for that situation.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  "meeting girls at lunch" is a lot less of a benefit under modern expectations of workplace behavior. There may still be benefits though. But anyway why not join a social club for dating? That's where people go intentionally to socialize, so your "hit rate" will be much higher.
  - yowlingcat 5y ago
    This sounds out of touch with reality. First of all, a social club for dating? Really? Are you sure you're in the right century? People most frequently meet each other dating the same way they always have, with a twist -- friends, institutions (including the workplace), bars and online dating (that's the twist). Secondly, 22% of Americans met their spouse at work [1], and 27% have indicated they'd be open to it [2]. Does that mean that it's always a reasonable idea, or that it's free of risks and messiness? No and no. The fact that it's sometimes playing with fire isn't going to deter anybody. Pandemic notwithstanding, Americans spend so much time at work in deeply intimate psychological settings building deep social bonds that it's only natural that romance often develops. [1] https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140211005135/en/Keeping-Professional-Global-Poll-Finds-58-Office https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140211005135/en/Kee... [2] https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/one-third-u-s-marriages-start-online-dating-study-article-1.1362743 https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/one-third-u-s-marriag...
  - oblio 5y ago
    > "meeting girls at lunch" is a lot less of a benefit under modern expectations of workplace behavior. I doubt human nature will change because or recent social mores. It will just adapt. But over time, people tend to date people they meet regularly and get to bond with. I forget the percentages, but I remember reading a study saying that most marriages involve people who were classmates in high school, in college or were coworkers. > But anyway why not join a social club for dating? That's where people go intentionally to socialize, so your "hit rate" will be much higher. I'm not OP, but that's an additional effort and not always easy to do (for example your work hours could be longer, the social club might not be close by, etc, a myriad reasons). See my previous part of the comment: a lot of people find their life partners in their vicinity, without going out of their way to look for them.
francis-io 5y ago
Here in the UK, I see the battle still raging from both sides. I have been remote for 3 or so years now, so during covid it was business as usual for me. I have a dedicated room in my house for a "work" office, and plan to convert the roof into a hobby office. Having a dedicated room really helps me get into work mode. In the UK I'm starting to see a push to get back into the office by the media. Stories about how "most" people want to go back into the office, which goes strongly against what I've heard from colleagues (which, to be fair is only tech people). I've heard the argument about being trapped in a small home/flat can be an issue, especially with kids, so I can see that being a driver to get back in the office. Some more management and sales type people have told me quick communication face to face is missing with remote working, but for me, an information worker, I value not being interrupted every 10 mins. I can put my slack on DnD and block out mornings or afternoons for deep work. I lived in the outskirts of London and commuted in for a long time when I was getting started in this career. Now I'm 10 years in, I'm over spending £650/$900 a month on a train ticket, spending 1h 30m each way to commute in and then spending £10 on lunch every day. At home I can cook good, cheap, home cooked meals. I can go for a walk at lunch time and start and finish when I want to, as long as work is complete. People have also told me they miss social time in the office. I'm more introverted, so I miss this much less, but if it's a big loss, maybe you need to socialise more outside of work. Now, 18 months into COVID, I have decided I never want to go back into an office, if I can help it. I know not everyone can do this, but for me, I've committed so much that I've moved away from London up to the North of England. I want to continue to arbitrage between London tech rates and cheaper locations as long as I can. I'm sorry to say but I think most big cities will keep a significant loss of visitors. Those that can move will do. The brain drain from a country into capital cities I feel is reversing, and I think it's for the best. We can help revitalise smaller areas and tech like the internet, video calls and the acceptance of things like Slack will power it. So right now, I think its a battle between employers and staff. Employers mostly want people back in the office (for some reason, I'm still not sure why), and most employees want to be remote, or at least have the option. Who will break first is the big question. An employer willing to hire from a bigger pool of people is bound to, over time, gain a competitive edge.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > spending 1h 30m each way to commute in That's crazy - where on the outskirts of London did you live? Birmingham?
macspoofing 5y ago
>I believe the WFH shift is inevitable for the information industry and whoever tries to resist it will be in the wrong side of history. I believe the WFH shift is currently in fashion, in the same way that cubicles used to be, then open-offices. 10+ years ago, it was a big thing for a startup, for example, to get some office space at a accelerator just to have a physical location - even though you could do all your work remotely. At some point, I suspect, work-from-office will come back around. Big picture: Some people like remote work, some people don't. Some companies will embrace remote work, some won't. This is the same with how some people prefer cubicles (like me!) and others see them as soul-less cages.
- tarsinge 5y ago
  Regular WFH is definitely not in fashion, the discussions of these last few days show it's still in early stage even in FAANGs outside of the COVID context. > Some people like remote work, some people don't. And a lot like to have the option to do both, because even if I prefer working at the office being forced to be there every day of the week no matter the circumstances makes no sense for me. What is asked here is flexibility.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  > At some point, I suspect, work-from-office will come back around. It already has. The forward-thinking job candidates advertise willingness to work in an office now, (correctly) inferring that it increases their hireability and promotion chances.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    You're being downvoted but, as someone effectively if not officially full-time remote, I agree with you. There are almost certainly far more opportunities for someone who can come into an office even if just for a day or two a week, a few days every other week, etc. than there are for people living in the mountains someplace who can fly to a week-long team meeting every quarter. The latter opportunities exist too. That's effectively the situation with my very distributed team although I could drive into an office (where the vast bulk of them are not located). But there are probably far fewer of them.
fancifalmanima 5y ago
I don't know that the climate impact is necessarily settled: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200218-why-working-from-home-might-be-less-sustainable https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200218-why-working-fr... (note that I'm generally pro wfh, but on the climate side it is feasible that running the AC or heat in your home more during the day is less efficient than driving to work and congregating with bunch of people in a building designed for energy efficiency. I'm not saying that the claim in that article is true, just that I'm not sure that it's settled) Anecdotally, I ended up getting a CO2 monitor for my house, and had to set the central air fan to run pretty regularly (when not feasible to open windows, which is much of the year year -- quite hot) to circulate the air to keep CO2 levels at a point where they weren't potentially effecting my cognitive abilities (i noticed that's I'd start feeling lethargic and getting headaches, etc). The house is just designed to be sealed up for efficiency, rather than an office building which is often designed to circulate air to avoid that problem. CO2 levels throughout the house have dropped, but there's certainly an energy cost to that.

radicalbyte 5y ago

I'm not so sure: now that I'm 40 and have 3 kids I really love WFH. It saves a commute and lets me balance my life/work effectively. However 21/22 year old me would have hated this! Working from an office was so much fun back then. Plus you'd meet girls at lunch and stuff. Fantastic time. Lots of work, lots of learning the soft skills and lots of laughing around and enjoying myself. I hope that 24/7 WFH doesn't become a thing, but that we get a mix. Flexibility from both sides, whenever possible.

Loughla 5y ago
>lots of learning the soft skills This is actually something that didn't cross my mind through this whole thing, and I don't know why. I love WFH, and wish my employer would extend the option, rather than take a hardline stance against it (old administration doesn't understand productivity tools so we all suffer). That being said, if I was just starting out in the working world, my prospects absolutely would've been different as time went on. Working in an office full time 100% helped me realize that soft skills are as, if not more important than technical skill. As a director of a very diverse department now, I actually look for soft skills more than anything. Technical aspects can be learned via the on-boarding process. Soft skills are so much harder to hone, though. Especially if you're entirely remote.
sumtechguy 5y ago
It will be a blend in the end. Right now it is more a fashion thing. Depending on the structure of your company it will work very well or not at at all. Sometimes throwing 3 people in a room with a whiteboard and a few markers fixes a lot of issues. That sort of thing does not usually happen remote from my exp. But in an office it happens all the time. Sometimes there are too many help vampires. They are good enough but require a lot of hand holding to get up to 'works independent'. The ones they goto are usually the most productive people and that does not happen as much remote. So the more productive ones say 'this is awesome' because they get so much done, but meanwhile the rest of the org is struggling. Also when you work remote after a few years people 'forget' about you. You get left out of things. Because they just do not see you. If they do not see you, you do not exist to them. I worked remote for about 10 years. I had to be very diligent to be included into things. Recently a few years ago I got to work in an office again with a great group. It was amazing. I learned so much so quickly. I became way more productive. I was able to share a lot more to more jr devs. But now it is back to the same things where I have to spend a lot of time being noticed for anything, and basically having to play a interesting game of 'be nice in email'. Also if you do not have an advocates in management it will be even worse (luckily I do not have that issue this time). Remote work has a lot going for it but also a lot going against it. But in the end companies will need to measure it. If they don't it is nothing but a guess.
- throwaway2037 5y ago
  <<too many help vampires>> This is my first time ever to see this description. It is perfect. I am currently sitting next to someone who is exactly this! I cannot figure out if this person is lacking skills or just plain lazy... but they sure take up a lot of my time compared to their net output!
  - sumtechguy 5y ago
    The best way to help them is to challenge them with questions. Basically teach them to learn it and ask things like 'did you look at the docs and what did they say?' 'if you were going to do it how would you?...' and so on. One important aspect is to teach them to have their own authority to do things. Basically do not show them exactly how to do something but guide them to learning how to do it. But it can take awhile to 'fix'. No quick answer for that situation.
alisonkisk 5y ago
"meeting girls at lunch" is a lot less of a benefit under modern expectations of workplace behavior. There may still be benefits though. But anyway why not join a social club for dating? That's where people go intentionally to socialize, so your "hit rate" will be much higher.
- yowlingcat 5y ago
  This sounds out of touch with reality. First of all, a social club for dating? Really? Are you sure you're in the right century? People most frequently meet each other dating the same way they always have, with a twist -- friends, institutions (including the workplace), bars and online dating (that's the twist). Secondly, 22% of Americans met their spouse at work [1], and 27% have indicated they'd be open to it [2]. Does that mean that it's always a reasonable idea, or that it's free of risks and messiness? No and no. The fact that it's sometimes playing with fire isn't going to deter anybody. Pandemic notwithstanding, Americans spend so much time at work in deeply intimate psychological settings building deep social bonds that it's only natural that romance often develops. [1] https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140211005135/en/Keeping-Professional-Global-Poll-Finds-58-Office https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140211005135/en/Kee... [2] https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/one-third-u-s-marriages-start-online-dating-study-article-1.1362743 https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/one-third-u-s-marriag...
- oblio 5y ago
  > "meeting girls at lunch" is a lot less of a benefit under modern expectations of workplace behavior. I doubt human nature will change because or recent social mores. It will just adapt. But over time, people tend to date people they meet regularly and get to bond with. I forget the percentages, but I remember reading a study saying that most marriages involve people who were classmates in high school, in college or were coworkers. > But anyway why not join a social club for dating? That's where people go intentionally to socialize, so your "hit rate" will be much higher. I'm not OP, but that's an additional effort and not always easy to do (for example your work hours could be longer, the social club might not be close by, etc, a myriad reasons). See my previous part of the comment: a lot of people find their life partners in their vicinity, without going out of their way to look for them.

francis-io 5y ago

Here in the UK, I see the battle still raging from both sides. I have been remote for 3 or so years now, so during covid it was business as usual for me. I have a dedicated room in my house for a "work" office, and plan to convert the roof into a hobby office. Having a dedicated room really helps me get into work mode. In the UK I'm starting to see a push to get back into the office by the media. Stories about how "most" people want to go back into the office, which goes strongly against what I've heard from colleagues (which, to be fair is only tech people). I've heard the argument about being trapped in a small home/flat can be an issue, especially with kids, so I can see that being a driver to get back in the office. Some more management and sales type people have told me quick communication face to face is missing with remote working, but for me, an information worker, I value not being interrupted every 10 mins. I can put my slack on DnD and block out mornings or afternoons for deep work. I lived in the outskirts of London and commuted in for a long time when I was getting started in this career. Now I'm 10 years in, I'm over spending £650/$900 a month on a train ticket, spending 1h 30m each way to commute in and then spending £10 on lunch every day. At home I can cook good, cheap, home cooked meals. I can go for a walk at lunch time and start and finish when I want to, as long as work is complete. People have also told me they miss social time in the office. I'm more introverted, so I miss this much less, but if it's a big loss, maybe you need to socialise more outside of work. Now, 18 months into COVID, I have decided I never want to go back into an office, if I can help it. I know not everyone can do this, but for me, I've committed so much that I've moved away from London up to the North of England. I want to continue to arbitrage between London tech rates and cheaper locations as long as I can. I'm sorry to say but I think most big cities will keep a significant loss of visitors. Those that can move will do. The brain drain from a country into capital cities I feel is reversing, and I think it's for the best. We can help revitalise smaller areas and tech like the internet, video calls and the acceptance of things like Slack will power it. So right now, I think its a battle between employers and staff. Employers mostly want people back in the office (for some reason, I'm still not sure why), and most employees want to be remote, or at least have the option. Who will break first is the big question. An employer willing to hire from a bigger pool of people is bound to, over time, gain a competitive edge.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> spending 1h 30m each way to commute in That's crazy - where on the outskirts of London did you live? Birmingham?

macspoofing 5y ago

>I believe the WFH shift is inevitable for the information industry and whoever tries to resist it will be in the wrong side of history. I believe the WFH shift is currently in fashion, in the same way that cubicles used to be, then open-offices. 10+ years ago, it was a big thing for a startup, for example, to get some office space at a accelerator just to have a physical location - even though you could do all your work remotely. At some point, I suspect, work-from-office will come back around. Big picture: Some people like remote work, some people don't. Some companies will embrace remote work, some won't. This is the same with how some people prefer cubicles (like me!) and others see them as soul-less cages.

tarsinge 5y ago
Regular WFH is definitely not in fashion, the discussions of these last few days show it's still in early stage even in FAANGs outside of the COVID context. > Some people like remote work, some people don't. And a lot like to have the option to do both, because even if I prefer working at the office being forced to be there every day of the week no matter the circumstances makes no sense for me. What is asked here is flexibility.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
> At some point, I suspect, work-from-office will come back around. It already has. The forward-thinking job candidates advertise willingness to work in an office now, (correctly) inferring that it increases their hireability and promotion chances.
- ghaff 5y ago
  You're being downvoted but, as someone effectively if not officially full-time remote, I agree with you. There are almost certainly far more opportunities for someone who can come into an office even if just for a day or two a week, a few days every other week, etc. than there are for people living in the mountains someplace who can fly to a week-long team meeting every quarter. The latter opportunities exist too. That's effectively the situation with my very distributed team although I could drive into an office (where the vast bulk of them are not located). But there are probably far fewer of them.

fancifalmanima 5y ago

I don't know that the climate impact is necessarily settled: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200218-why-working-from-home-might-be-less-sustainable https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200218-why-working-fr... (note that I'm generally pro wfh, but on the climate side it is feasible that running the AC or heat in your home more during the day is less efficient than driving to work and congregating with bunch of people in a building designed for energy efficiency. I'm not saying that the claim in that article is true, just that I'm not sure that it's settled) Anecdotally, I ended up getting a CO2 monitor for my house, and had to set the central air fan to run pretty regularly (when not feasible to open windows, which is much of the year year -- quite hot) to circulate the air to keep CO2 levels at a point where they weren't potentially effecting my cognitive abilities (i noticed that's I'd start feeling lethargic and getting headaches, etc). The house is just designed to be sealed up for efficiency, rather than an office building which is often designed to circulate air to avoid that problem. CO2 levels throughout the house have dropped, but there's certainly an energy cost to that.