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Why should others decide if I can run useless hashing functions on my computer? Price the electricity accordingly, and make PoW impossible. Cryptocurrency is n

by SCHiM 5y ago

Why should others decide if I can run useless hashing functions on my computer? Price the electricity accordingly, and make PoW impossible. Cryptocurrency is no the enabler of ransomware. Ransomware was prevalent before cryptocurrencies. The real enablers of ransomware are the countries that shelter the R10 groups, raking in millions. There's a reason some ransomware doesn't run when your system has a Russian language keyboard, and it's not because they know Russians never pay ransom...

f6v 5y ago
> There's a reason some ransomware doesn't run when your system has a Russian language keyboard, and it's not because they know Russians never pay ransom... Why then?
- vultour 5y ago
  Because some countries turn a blind eye to ransomware operators in their territory, and are not targeted in return.
- gtyras2mrs 5y ago
  The theory (conspiracy or otherwise) that I've heard is that the Russian state looks the other way as long as ransomware makers don't affect Russian systems. So they exclude systems with Russian language keyboard to avoid impacting Russian systems (which might cause the Russian govt to take action against them)
- SCHiM 5y ago
  Because they run their operations from there, and don't mess around where they live. Part of their profits pays for protection. Extracting value, and crippling western companies aligns with the strategic goals of these countries. And ransomware is literally a 10B USD business.
bo0tzz 5y ago
>Price the electricity accordingly So I should pay significantly more on my bills, just because you want to play with some virtual coins?
- fsflover 5y ago
  You should pay more because we have to take into account CO2 problem, which is the same problem for you and for miners.
- mlatu 5y ago
  I don't think that's the point. They could just increase price on higher usage. So everyone pays the same, but those who use more pay more²
  - chapium 5y ago
    Wouldn't a graduated pricing scheme be circumvented by additional hookups?
- vnorilo 5y ago
  I think they mean it's more efficient to tax/price energy as heavily as needed to reduce emissions across the board. Playing with virtual coins then becomes much, much less appealing to the average user, but we won't need to accumulate edge cases to ban.
raverbashing 5y ago
> doesn't run when your system has a Russian language keyboard, and it's not because they know Russians never pay ransom Yes, maybe because Russia wouldn't deal with that issue with "thoughts and prayers". On a completely unrelated subject nobody wants to wake up in a duffel bag.
dataflow 5y ago
> Cryptocurrency is no the enabler of ransomware. Ransomware was prevalent before cryptocurrencies. This meme really needs to die. It's driving me more and more insane every time I read it. Ransomware may have existed previously but it was nowhere nearly as prevalent before cryptocurrencies came around. It is not a mere coincidence of the cosmos that almost every single darn time (I think literally 98% of the time, as of 2019) ransomware infects someone's machine, it demands payment in Bitcoin. There is a clear relationship there for a very good reason. I cannot fathom how otherwise logical people can see these with their own eyes and yet somehow blind themselves to the obvious connection. And if you need this from an authoritative mouth because it isn't already clear as daylight... "Cryptocurrency is one of the single enabling factors that allows cybercriminals to deploy a massive amount of ransomware across state and local agencies", said Christopher Krebs. [1] [1] https://www.rsaconference.com/library/blog/how-cryptocurrency-fuels-ransomware https://www.rsaconference.com/library/blog/how-cryptocurrenc...
- SCHiM 5y ago
  I've been in security for ages, ransomware was there but has evolved since then. Two other reasons can explain the increase in ransomware, that merely correlate with the rise of cryptocurrencies: 1) The innovation of encrypting files hadn't occurred to ransomware operators yet. 2) The value of computer systems, and data, itself increased. Massively increasing the likelihood of victims paying the ransom. Before crypto currencies 'FBI scareware', which held your computer ransom by disabling your standard UI, simply asked you fork over the cash via Western Union. This increases the friction for consumers, but if the colonial pipeline was ransomed in the same way, and the ransom only payable over WU, then they would have done that instead.
  - Isinlor 5y ago
    The law enforcement would be able to trace the payment trough Western Union. Especially a million and more transactions. The money laundering regulations apply to money transfers.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    > and the ransom only payable over WU, then they would have done that instead. As if WU and crypto don't have very different KYC requirements (as in - none for crypto)
johbjo 5y ago
> Price the electricity accordingly, and make PoW impossible. The problem is that other productive things are priced out before "mining". The environmental cost will be born either way, but mining is by definition not productive. It has been profitable to some people, but it is destructive to civilisation altogether.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Mining is absolutely productive, as a secondary effect of course. The process creates potential money that is impossible to counterfeit. This simply did not exist before, maintaining that is of enormous value. Of course, if this can be done without ongoing expenditure that would be better.
jl6 5y ago
Cryptocurrency is absolutely an enabler of ransomware. Is there any ransomware that extorts money in a form other than cryptocurrency? And yes, who would have thought that running useless hash functions on your computer could have enormous global externalities? Compute what you like on your own computer, but sending the results is intentionally participating in a worldwide crimewave and environmental disaster.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Cryptocurrency is a tool that is useful to ransomware perpetrators. That's not the same as being an enabler, unless you want to classify computers and digital data storage as enablers of ransomware.
jeromenerf 5y ago
> Why should others decide if I can run useless hashing functions on my computer? Price the electricity accordingly, and make PoW impossible. Cultural model. I don't feel like increasing the electricity price for everyone is a better solution. > Cryptocurrency is no the enabler of ransomware. Ransomware was prevalent before cryptocurrencies. The real enablers of ransomware are the countries that shelter the R10 groups, raking in millions. Cryptocurrency are a good catalyst. The first does not exclude the last. The "real enabler" is that fast growing systems are juicy and fragile. > There's a reason some ransomware doesn't run when your system has a Russian language keyboard, and it's not because they know Russians never pay ransom... Many nations have active "digital warfare" programs, which may or may not take the form of ransomware. I would not be surprised if some would masquerade themselves as Russians masquerading as Israelis masquerading as Frenchs to poke on China, if all it takes is to carefully check and act on keyboard mapping. Don't you dare touching the colemak users.
monkeydust 5y ago
I agree with you here. I don't love PoW but I also see issues with PoS. I am a single computer miner but I only ever turn on my miner if I am net exporting back to the grid (solar). Main reason here is that the money I get from the grid is ~25% what I pay on the way down and through mining its anywhere from 500-1200% for the amount of energy I am using. If my energy company paid me more or there was infrastructure for me to sell my excess to my neighbours (such things exists in the world) then that would be appealing to me.

by SCHiM 5y ago

f6v 5y ago

> There's a reason some ransomware doesn't run when your system has a Russian language keyboard, and it's not because they know Russians never pay ransom... Why then?

vultour 5y ago
Because some countries turn a blind eye to ransomware operators in their territory, and are not targeted in return.
gtyras2mrs 5y ago
The theory (conspiracy or otherwise) that I've heard is that the Russian state looks the other way as long as ransomware makers don't affect Russian systems. So they exclude systems with Russian language keyboard to avoid impacting Russian systems (which might cause the Russian govt to take action against them)
SCHiM 5y ago
Because they run their operations from there, and don't mess around where they live. Part of their profits pays for protection. Extracting value, and crippling western companies aligns with the strategic goals of these countries. And ransomware is literally a 10B USD business.

bo0tzz 5y ago

>Price the electricity accordingly So I should pay significantly more on my bills, just because you want to play with some virtual coins?

fsflover 5y ago
You should pay more because we have to take into account CO2 problem, which is the same problem for you and for miners.
mlatu 5y ago
I don't think that's the point. They could just increase price on higher usage. So everyone pays the same, but those who use more pay more²
- chapium 5y ago
  Wouldn't a graduated pricing scheme be circumvented by additional hookups?
vnorilo 5y ago
I think they mean it's more efficient to tax/price energy as heavily as needed to reduce emissions across the board. Playing with virtual coins then becomes much, much less appealing to the average user, but we won't need to accumulate edge cases to ban.

raverbashing 5y ago

> doesn't run when your system has a Russian language keyboard, and it's not because they know Russians never pay ransom Yes, maybe because Russia wouldn't deal with that issue with "thoughts and prayers". On a completely unrelated subject nobody wants to wake up in a duffel bag.

dataflow 5y ago

> Cryptocurrency is no the enabler of ransomware. Ransomware was prevalent before cryptocurrencies. This meme really needs to die. It's driving me more and more insane every time I read it. Ransomware may have existed previously but it was nowhere nearly as prevalent before cryptocurrencies came around. It is not a mere coincidence of the cosmos that almost every single darn time (I think literally 98% of the time, as of 2019) ransomware infects someone's machine, it demands payment in Bitcoin. There is a clear relationship there for a very good reason. I cannot fathom how otherwise logical people can see these with their own eyes and yet somehow blind themselves to the obvious connection. And if you need this from an authoritative mouth because it isn't already clear as daylight... "Cryptocurrency is one of the single enabling factors that allows cybercriminals to deploy a massive amount of ransomware across state and local agencies", said Christopher Krebs. [1] [1] https://www.rsaconference.com/library/blog/how-cryptocurrency-fuels-ransomware https://www.rsaconference.com/library/blog/how-cryptocurrenc...

SCHiM 5y ago
I've been in security for ages, ransomware was there but has evolved since then. Two other reasons can explain the increase in ransomware, that merely correlate with the rise of cryptocurrencies: 1) The innovation of encrypting files hadn't occurred to ransomware operators yet. 2) The value of computer systems, and data, itself increased. Massively increasing the likelihood of victims paying the ransom. Before crypto currencies 'FBI scareware', which held your computer ransom by disabling your standard UI, simply asked you fork over the cash via Western Union. This increases the friction for consumers, but if the colonial pipeline was ransomed in the same way, and the ransom only payable over WU, then they would have done that instead.
- Isinlor 5y ago
  The law enforcement would be able to trace the payment trough Western Union. Especially a million and more transactions. The money laundering regulations apply to money transfers.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  > and the ransom only payable over WU, then they would have done that instead. As if WU and crypto don't have very different KYC requirements (as in - none for crypto)

johbjo 5y ago

> Price the electricity accordingly, and make PoW impossible. The problem is that other productive things are priced out before "mining". The environmental cost will be born either way, but mining is by definition not productive. It has been profitable to some people, but it is destructive to civilisation altogether.

betwixthewires 5y ago
Mining is absolutely productive, as a secondary effect of course. The process creates potential money that is impossible to counterfeit. This simply did not exist before, maintaining that is of enormous value. Of course, if this can be done without ongoing expenditure that would be better.

jl6 5y ago

Cryptocurrency is absolutely an enabler of ransomware. Is there any ransomware that extorts money in a form other than cryptocurrency? And yes, who would have thought that running useless hash functions on your computer could have enormous global externalities? Compute what you like on your own computer, but sending the results is intentionally participating in a worldwide crimewave and environmental disaster.

betwixthewires 5y ago
Cryptocurrency is a tool that is useful to ransomware perpetrators. That's not the same as being an enabler, unless you want to classify computers and digital data storage as enablers of ransomware.

jeromenerf 5y ago

> Why should others decide if I can run useless hashing functions on my computer? Price the electricity accordingly, and make PoW impossible. Cultural model. I don't feel like increasing the electricity price for everyone is a better solution. > Cryptocurrency is no the enabler of ransomware. Ransomware was prevalent before cryptocurrencies. The real enablers of ransomware are the countries that shelter the R10 groups, raking in millions. Cryptocurrency are a good catalyst. The first does not exclude the last. The "real enabler" is that fast growing systems are juicy and fragile. > There's a reason some ransomware doesn't run when your system has a Russian language keyboard, and it's not because they know Russians never pay ransom... Many nations have active "digital warfare" programs, which may or may not take the form of ransomware. I would not be surprised if some would masquerade themselves as Russians masquerading as Israelis masquerading as Frenchs to poke on China, if all it takes is to carefully check and act on keyboard mapping. Don't you dare touching the colemak users.

monkeydust 5y ago

I agree with you here. I don't love PoW but I also see issues with PoS. I am a single computer miner but I only ever turn on my miner if I am net exporting back to the grid (solar). Main reason here is that the money I get from the grid is ~25% what I pay on the way down and through mining its anywhere from 500-1200% for the amount of energy I am using. If my energy company paid me more or there was infrastructure for me to sell my excess to my neighbours (such things exists in the world) then that would be appealing to me.